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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › two crashes in two days
07-19-2002 06:29 AM  16 years agoPost 1
rb3

rrNovice

Powhatan, VA & Chicago, IL

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Well I'm 100%!. The first crash was both my fault and the helis. I had my raptor on a runup stand about 6 feet up, testing and adjusting. I stepped back about 50 feet or so, gave it throttle, and then then it just revved up on its own, and i couldnt bring it back down. Cause: throttle arm worked the screw holding it out. Throttle went 100% on the stand which wasn't heavy enough to hold it, tipped over from 6 feet up. Gone: main blades, tail pitch slider, flybar, one tail support link. Luckily nothing else.

Round TWO. Fixed the throtlle arm. Thread locked it. Reset the throws. Fixed the rest. We're up and running folks! Went through a tank practicing hover, etc. Second tank came along. And the heli was slow to crank for some reason. Flooded. Pulled the plug, shot the fuel out, and tried again. Still slow to crank. Primed it. Up she went, but immediately something was wrong, the engine revved WAYYY tooo high. Clutched engaged the blades wanted to turn. Well luckily i had them tight in my hand, Thinking the transmitter stick had been nodged, and being the idiot that I am, I moved the starter clear, and the rest of the gear, let got of the blade, ran away to the transmitter. BEfore I could really think the blades were sizzling at full throttle, but no pitch (i'm guessing because the heli didnt go vertical). Tried to back it down on the controller, but no luck. NO throttle control! The heli tilts up, and over. BOOM. and grinds into the ground. Main blades, and fly bar gone, and flybar seasaw (fly bar was so badly bent I couldn't get the thing out of the seasaw, any tricks?). But here is the kicker, the throttle arm was connected just fine, and stick worked after the crash! moved open and close, and the linkage was set correctly even post crash!! Any ideas? The needle was checked before the flight, 1.5 turns out, the same as usual. A radio glitch maybe? Could the reciever had been damaged post the last drop? (it was foam wrapped, etc, and doesnt show any damage). But the first gallon went just fine.

I love cheap parts!

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07-19-2002 07:40 AM  16 years agoPost 2
Mopzilla

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USA

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Wow, I think you should take a LOT more caution with this hobby.
on a runup stand about 6 feet up, testing and adjusting.
Wasn't it kind of obvious that the heli could tip easily? You should have put it on training gear and let it spool up safely that way. Check all the stuff. Basically take the time to get all the stuff not binding, smooth, oiled, in the right position for any emergency. How many tanks or gallons have you had through your heli?

If the stand fell over, what would happen to you? If it fell over, and you were able to get away, and then some parts from the main rotor hit you at the speed of a bullet, what would happen?
ran away to the transmitter.
WHAT??? Man, the TX should be right at your side. When you start the heli it should be at idle, and if it accidentally starts above idle, you should have the TX ready to shut the engine off (full down stick, and full down trim).


be careful.

-----------------
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

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07-19-2002 07:56 AM  16 years agoPost 3
rb3

rrNovice

Powhatan, VA & Chicago, IL

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the wierd thing was that the run up stand was secured. the platform was a 1" plywood, the heli was blocked down to this, which was screwed and CLAMPED to a step ladder. THEN base supports at the bottom. but it still managed to tip over. I was safely away, (didnt spool it pass idle when I was under it, even wore a heltmet. But your point definitely taken. The transmitter was about 4 feet from me (careless error I admit). i have about 3 galllons through this one. The past two days have been a learning experience to say the least. But i definitely hear you on the caution note

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07-19-2002 08:16 AM  16 years agoPost 4
ncostes

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Va, US

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rb

Sorry to hear about those crashes, it hurts to read about those

check the 2 carb retaining screws - if one of them pops out your engine will only run at > 1/3 throttle and then it will run uncontrollably until you yank the fuel line or slam the throttle down all the way.

happened to me.

also re: run up stand, I like the picture of the one in Ray's Helicopter Manual - the guy has a full head motorcylce helmet on as he is adjusting the needle That's about the only way I'd work with one - but I think it would be very useful - eliminate the need for a skytach for the most part.

He does mention you probably need to have weights firmly attached to the bottom of the ladder

One other tip (I learned this the hard way by burning out a clutch because I started the engine with throttle open) - always lay the TX to your left, with the antenna by the tail rotor. That way you can see the throttle. Once you start the heli, keep your right hand on the head, and grab the TX w/left hand and check throttle w/left thumb. Only then set ithe tx back down, unplug your glo ignitor, then TX back in your left hand and always have the TX in your left hand w/thumb on the throttle (I don't keep thumb on the stick, keep it on the lower part under the stick - easy to control) as you walk the heli out to where you take off (tail rotor first so you don' tbang the boom, right hand holding onto one blade grip). The worst it can do this way is bang your leg

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07-19-2002 10:13 AM  16 years agoPost 5
jimmyhua

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Guam

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know where the fuel lines are
If the heli starts up in full throttle, don't bother with the transmitter.

Just yank the fuel line away from the carb.

Reason why? Could be all sorts of other problems why it started up full throttle.

1. You are in the wrong model memory and your throttle setup on this particular model is reversed.

2. Your throttle linkage is stuck at full or the linkage popped off, or your servo throttle is broke.

3. Your carb is broke or some screws worked loose, and will only run in full.

Having the Tx nearby won't fix any of the above problems. It will only fix one problem that you should never have which is a) you left the left stick up at full throttle. This is something you should check for right before you put that glo-starter on.

About using a run-up stand.

I don't think it's worth using a runup stand. It's too much hassle.

If you do. You really have to make sure your stand AND heli is up to the task. Other things that have happened, is the heli landing gear ripping off, and heli takes right off. Or only 2 or 3 bolts work loose off gear and heli performs a backflip/forward flip into ground. Or, the one you experienced is common too, stand tips over. Your stand needs to be at least 50 pounds. A raptor can fly around with 7 extra pounds of weight strapped to it (though poorly), and probably can put out 20+ pounds of instantaneous thrust if you spool up the blades and suddenly give full collective. Say your stand is 50 pounds or weighed down. The heli, can still pull the stand to the side and simply tip it over. So you got to stake your stand down, and keep it from being able to tip from any direction.

Anyways, try to use your head, and be more cautious. These things are more dangerous than cars in the wrong hands.

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07-19-2002 06:07 PM  16 years agoPost 6
Mopzilla

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USA

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These things are more dangerous than cars in the wrong hands.
I think almost anything that moves something enough to kill somebody is equally dangerous in the wrong hands. Danger is universal and equal. There either IS danger, or there isn't.
If the heli starts up in full throttle, don't bother with the transmitter.
Yes, i forgot to say this! Really cuz i've never had to use it - yet. You should have a length of the tubing to the carb sticking out so that you can hook it with your finger and kill your engine. Safety first!

To tune your engine, don't even use a stand. Just land it, stop the blades, make an adjustment, spool up again, fly, etc. If you have a spare proportional channen on your TX, you may want to use that to adjust the mixture. whatever is needed.

-----------------
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

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07-19-2002 06:09 PM  16 years agoPost 7
Hughes500Pilot

rrKey Veteran

Anaheim, CA

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Sorry, but to say the first crash was half yours and half the heli's is not fair at all. I hate to tell you, but that was 100% pilot error. Both from the fact that you used an improperly fixed run-up stand and since you did not locktight the throttle arm in the first place.

As for the second crash, my guess is that you accitently put the throttle arm back on backwards... Therefore, when you thought you were at low stick, you were really at full throttle.

-Steve

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07-19-2002 07:08 PM  16 years agoPost 8
rb3

rrNovice

Powhatan, VA & Chicago, IL

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She flies!
I took it COMPLETELY apart last night, put it all back together. the throttle arm wasnt reversed. But I did find a tiny hole in the fuel tubing. Replaced all of the tubing. Quadruple checked the servos, throws, directions, angles, THROTTLE, ranged checked, and all that good stuff. Dialed the needle in, and cranked it up (TX right by me ;o). Watched for vibrations, none. Hovered around and played with it a bit. Got 4 tanks through it this morning! No jitters, and no throttle problems at all. Packs on the charger now! And I just finished checking ALL my screws, and bolts. And everything is still tight and working as it should. I am certainly glad this thing is tough! I'm probaly going to call it a day for today. Its been a good one

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07-20-2002 01:44 AM  16 years agoPost 9
ncostes

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Va, US

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Way to go rb! When you fall off, just get right back on good job.


I won't debate the run up stand issue - read in ray's for yourself and you decide, if you don't like it, don't use it

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07-20-2002 01:56 AM  16 years agoPost 10
buzzkill

rrApprentice

Portland, Oregon. Astoria Oregon

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I keep crashing too :-(

I have been working on auto rotations, working up from baby 3' auto's to 10'-15' auto's. I auto until I mess one up and boom strike. I have crashed 4 times in the last 4 outings. If find that the simulator is just not the same as in real life. If I get the timing wrong and run out of energy its going to land hard.

I am getting better - but its slow.

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07-20-2002 02:24 AM  16 years agoPost 11
ncostes

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Va, US

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Well I can't auto yet so you're ahead of me in piloting skill

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07-20-2002 02:56 AM  16 years agoPost 12
rickc

rrElite Veteran

Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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Head speed is a big factor when doing low autos or any auto it seems to me. Auto's are no problem even on stock 30 woodies if your head speed is high enough. 1700 or better seems to work well for me. I prefer autoing from probably 50 to 100 feet and give 10 negative to really let here fall and then flair. With my 550 V-Blades they auto very well and a slower decent is no problem. I'm glad you got up and running rb, I'm sure you filed away all the things you learned to do and not to do. Glad the heli only had slight damage and no other injuries came from the experience. Heli's are seen by so many plank fliers and at most fields as a pain in the A*S, planes crash daily but when a heli goes in some clubs react negatively. This is why others in this post were concerned about you forgetfulness and dangerous actions. Incidents like this is what are causing heli’s to be band at some fields. I hope we all can learn from your mistakes. Hang in there.

Rick

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