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07-17-2002 09:09 PM  16 years agoPost 1
Dirt Flier

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Orinda Ca

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I'm flying (sort of) a Rap 30 with a mind of its own. I'm useing a Super 8, OS 32, Gy240, 9202's all around and Wildcat 15%. As I was practising hovering today I seemed to notice that I was losing T/R effectiveness. Controlable but it felt funny. The heli would jerk 20 degrees one way and real slow coming back. I tried switching to HH mode. I took out the Rev on my Transmitter (everything to 0), as I belive your sopposed to do. I suddenly had a little less control with the heli having more of a mind of its own. I guess what it would be like without a gyro at all. I kept hovering and was able to maintain a stable hover for a little bit.
Now the wierd part. I normally hover at half throttle or right close to that. I've changed nothing other than adjusting the carb for weather differences. As I kept flying I noticed that it kept taking more and more throttle to stay aloft. Finally at full throttle (on transmitter) I didnt have the power to get anything more than light on the skids. My pitch range is from -1/2 to +9. my throttle pitch range is fom 0-80 percent. I wouldent think it require more than that for hovering. I normaly hover at half throttle and 6 degrees pitch. I can find nothing wrong with the heli. Any ideas?
One final question as this is my first post to RR, is there a spell checker hidden somewhere I can use so you dont have to decifer my posts and I dont come off as the uneducated fool that I am?
Thanks,
Jay

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07-17-2002 09:11 PM  16 years agoPost 2
heliman41

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Valparaiso IN. USA

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Maybe your too rich on the main needle?Somewhere between 1-11/2 out is right.

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07-17-2002 09:14 PM  16 years agoPost 3
heliman41

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Valparaiso IN. USA

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Try a new gloplug. Is the fuel in good condition?

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07-17-2002 09:27 PM  16 years agoPost 4
Dirt Flier

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Orinda Ca

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The fuel I believe to be good. I have a gallon of cp30 sitting around waiting on my to finish off this bottle. I'll definatly try changing the glow plug. Do they go bad during the same flight or go slow? I thought they were either good or dead. I'm still scared to take it up without figureing out whats wrong with the tail. Nose in is scary, I'm not comfortable with that beast turning around and looking at me with its one menacing eye.
Thanks for the quick response.
Jay

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07-17-2002 09:40 PM  16 years agoPost 5
heliman41

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Valparaiso IN. USA

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They can go bad and still run tho crappy.

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07-17-2002 09:44 PM  16 years agoPost 6
fitenfyr

rrProfessor

Port Orchard, Washington

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How was the Battery?
How good of a charge did you have? A battery going flat will do the exact same thing you described.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...

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07-17-2002 09:59 PM  16 years agoPost 7
Dirt Flier

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Orinda Ca

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I can assure you the batteries are well charged! A lesson learned not but a couple of weeks ago. I hadent flown for awile so I charged me Tx. I proceded to run in up in the front yard before going across the street to an empty lot. I look at my car and the scratches made by flying pieces of blade remind me to charge it. My roommate looks at his car seeing something quite similar and reminds me to charge both batteries also.

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07-18-2002 02:59 AM  16 years agoPost 8
Keeder

rrApprentice

Saint Louis

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Glow Plug
I'm going to bet on the glow plug...

I had this same thing happen twice and it was the glow plug both times.

New engines shed some metal as the cylinder seats and such. These tiny bits of metal seem to eat/short plugs. Still run, just not well. Of course, don't throw the old one away until you know a new one works.

Keeder

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07-18-2002 03:33 AM  16 years agoPost 9
Vance

rrVeteran

York ,PA

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Always change the plug at the first sign of differneces, then go richer on the main. you'll never hurt anything by going richer. After a few minutes of hovering land and put your finger on the engine backplate, if it is hot go richer. you should be able to hold your finger on the backplate with it feeling just warm.
I'm not familiar with the GY240- does it have superservo mode? if it does you should have it turned off with anything but the 9253.
You have described two different problems here so we're just "stabbin" at the problems. What are your ATV's for controlling your gyro gain and piro rate?
Vince D

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07-18-2002 03:49 AM  16 years agoPost 10
03fomoco

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Tucson AZ

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My 2 1/2 cents
My two cents would be that you are way to lean. The tail will wag when two lean becasue the engine is missing a stroke or has a very lean stroke with little power and is not that audiable but the tail will wag which is always a sign of too much gain or to lean. Next you mentioned that power is falling off the more you fly. This is a sign the engine is getting hot and loosing power. Is the engine really hot after flight. A human hand can touch somthing till around 160 degrees with mild discomfort above 160 the brain says ouch with a built in reflex. You will know if it is like 240 or so which would be a little on the lean side. Try richening it up like 4-5 clicks and try if it gets a little better richen it up some more. It sucks because a heli is sick with power to spare on the ragged edge of lean but the trade off is a very short life. I believe the indy car guys call this lean burn eff. but most cars only last half a race lol... I may be way off base as I pretty much scan the posts anymore. Let us know how it turns out. BTW what engine and where are the needles at in reference to full closed. Also what is your humidity and amb. temp at on an average flying day. One last thing CP 30 is awsome fule but will still smoke on the lean side.

-Dave
Also as mentioned a colder plug could make a difference.

Sadly Sponsored by: VISA, MASTERCARD, and Bank of America

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07-18-2002 05:44 AM  16 years agoPost 11
Twobeers

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Toronto, Canada

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My first inclination would be that your running your engine to lean. My second would be that your batteries are going south. 9402 servo's in a 30 size is a little overkill not to mention that they require a lot more current to operate.

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07-18-2002 06:51 AM  16 years agoPost 12
shakeraker

rrNovice

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Clutch!
Don't forget to check for clutch slippage (oil from the muffler). If the engine revs up but the heli will not lift, clean out the clutch with some kind of alcohol (MEK works real good). Also, scruff up the clutch lining with a file and see if it gets any better lift. And one more thing, try Wild Cat 20% fuel. The 5% more will do you real good. I fly a Nexus 30 and I NEVER had a engine out yet. "Cross my fingers"


My 2 cents worth!

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07-18-2002 01:31 PM  16 years agoPost 13
rszostak

rrNovice

Woburn, MA

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Check your plug and check your fuel line in the gas tank. If you used the stock fuel line that came with the kit, I hear that it can detieriate quite fast with the higher Nitro fuels.

RGRDS
Richard

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07-18-2002 02:19 PM  16 years agoPost 14
Rocket

rrApprentice

Kent UK

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The model slowly sinking to the ground needing more and more throttle is a sure sign of an overheating engine. Especially with a new engine the mixture can sound about right (no harsh engine note) but the engine can still over heat.

Other things you might have noticed are if you set it down and closed the throttle it suddenly quit or sounded rough? After a spell of idling (and cooling) it would lift and fly OK for a while before sinking again?

To solve the problem open the main needle a little to keep it cooler at full throttle and open the idle mixture a tweak or two because the idle needle affects the mixture right up to about half throttle on the OS32 which is where the overheating in the hover begins.

You can also look at modifying the cooling channel to force more air through the engines head.

Andy.

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07-18-2002 03:16 PM  16 years agoPost 15
Bird_E

rrApprentice

Erie, CO

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Remember what you said!
You said you made a few adjustments because of weather conditions...... You are TOO LEAN! As the engine heated up it caused the piston to become tighter and tighter in the cylinder, causing you to give it more throttle to keep it running by overcomming its own friction...... By giving it more throttle you took a bad situation and made in worse.... I just hope you didn't damage the engine....
Note: IMHO!

Bob

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07-18-2002 03:54 PM  16 years agoPost 16
kovar

rrApprentice

West Chester, Ohio

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Batteries
You mentioned that it had been sitting a while. You may want to fully de-charge your batteries and then fully charge them again. Batteries can sometimes form a "memory" especially if you just fly once or twice getting the batteries to maybe 70% and then fully charging again. What happens over time and during storage is that the battery doesn't get exercised between it's full capacity. The result is that you have a 100% charge but the battery will drain very quickly giving you like a 30% total charge. My manual that came with my TX says to fully de-charge every 4-6 weeks even during storage. There are chargers available that will drain it for you or you can use the poor man's method. Turn it on and move the sticks until it dies.

My transmitter has a servo test feature so I just turn that on and let it run overnight to fully drain the batteries.

Also it is well worth the $10 to get a voltwatch or something that monitors the voltage. Hope this helps.

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07-18-2002 05:02 PM  16 years agoPost 17
heliwilly

rrApprentice

Hull ENGLAND

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Heli went screwy
When I had this happen to me I found out that it was the high speed needle on the carb screwing itself IN thus weakening the mixture. The anti -rotation spring had become weakened allowing the needle to rotate. My temporary cure was to put a cable tie round the anti rotation clip just tight enough to still allow the needle to be adjusted.
The way I found out the problem was to put my Heli on my test stand and wind it up, you could see the needle slowly rotating clockwise leaning the mixture.
As the cause in my case was vibration I completely rebalanced the rotating parts to ensure that I wasn't just masking the fault by cable tying the needle.
A new anti-rotation clip cured the problem permantly.
Heliwilly

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