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07-15-2002 10:25 AM  16 years agoPost 1
Chris Hinds

rrApprentice

Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

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For those that have flown the upcoming Fury FAI and the Pro2k in 'anger' which is really the better FAI ship or they equals? I like the simplicity of the Fury setup but having said that the engineering on the Pro looks amazing

So for those X-Cell pilots that have flown both... is the Fury FAI as good?

Thanks


Chris

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07-15-2002 03:19 PM  16 years agoPost 2
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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Hmmmmm ..........
Having flown both in competition, it's hard to say which is better. The Pro IIK is very precise and has the tank in back which allows for neutral hovering and a slightly more nose heavy configuration for aerobatics as the fuel burns off. The Fury is nearly a pound lighter which gives great results in vertcal pulls and awesome autos. The Fury is much easier to set up to roll, has fewer parts, is less expensive, and is currently under serious development. The Pro is fully developed, flies wonderfully in the wind, and has very few bad habits with a proven track record including a World Championship. MA plans to support the Pro for some time to come so parts and service should not be a concern.
Both work well but have very different "feels" I flew the Pro to 2nd place in Orlando in FAI and it was solid all weekend. I flew the Fury at the NATS this year with not enough time on it and probably hurt myself two or three places as it had not flown it enough in the wind so my hovering was a bit erratic vs the Pro. I plan on working with the Fury between now and teh Team Trails in Sept.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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07-15-2002 06:43 PM  16 years agoPost 3
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Though I'm in the class below FAI, I think I was one of the first, if not the first, to fly a Fury in competition in the US. I'm referring to AMA/FAI style contests, not 3D. The model adapts extremely well to this use. I was able to transition over from My ProII's with little or no problem getting used to the new models. The lower cost, easier set up for rolls, and lighter weigh were great. The model is critical in initial bench set up, meaning you need to take the time to get those servo arms on correctly. Since doing that, the models have stayed set up very, very well. So far, my Furys have given me two first place victories and two second place finishes in Class III contests. I'm very pleased indeed.

BTW, Cliff Hiatt has been very pleased so far with his Fury that has been set up for FAI. He took second place in the Nashville contest with that model. Gordie's Fury flew exceptionally well at this past Nats.


Ben Minor

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07-15-2002 10:26 PM  16 years agoPost 4
Chris Hinds

rrApprentice

Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

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What a tough call!
Wow! Wasn't expecting it to be that close to call. Sounds like the Pro is still slightly on top of the Fury, but the Fury is catching up fast. Looking the the Pro against the Fury at the Sandown shop a few months back the Pro certainly (In my novice view) felt more like a work of engineering and raw pure quality.

Agonies of choice! I will wait a few months then hope the Pro stays in production. Think it should do according to Gordie!

BTW Gordie, is the WC2 a big improvement over the older 9Z for eCCPM? I am gonna go Futaba from my X388 and a friend says his 9Z (pre WC) is not great for eCCPM. Is the WC2 better?

Thanks


Chris

PS Well done on your placing!

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07-15-2002 10:48 PM  16 years agoPost 5
spincycl

rrVeteran

Marietta, GA

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What head on Fury FAI?
What head will be on the Fury FAI?

Metal? Like the Pro2K? Any other goodies?

A different head setup on the FAI might make the Fury FAI feel more "pro-ish".

I love the Fury, but still I like the tremendous engineering (translated complexity), that went into the P2K.

If the P2K were $500 less, this would be a REALLY hard choice. But, 3D is the "in" thing now, and the masses are doing it, and the Fury is by far the best choice for it.

I still keep an eye out for a used P2K "for the right price".

.

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07-15-2002 10:55 PM  16 years agoPost 6
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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CCPM
Yes, the WC2 is superior to the older 9Zs for CCPM application. I had my sport Fury 61 Expert with analog servos on my WC. Just for fun, I copied it over into my WC2 and flew it and was SHOCKED at the difference. In talking with Futaba, they tell me that the processor in the WC2 is much faster around center than the WC which results in a much "tighter" feel.
Now after all that, the WC flew the model fine and I'm not sure that everyone would think the difference is as dramatic as I do. It takes a LOT of flying to get to the point where you can actually "feel" the difference between the two different transmitters. Would I feel comforable flying a Fury with a WC? Yes! Would I prefer a WC2? Yes. Is a WC2 essential? No. Does that answer your question?
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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07-15-2002 11:41 PM  16 years agoPost 7
Steve Campbell

rrElite Veteran

Baton Rouge, LA

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Chris,

I just got a 9Z WC2, after ten years of flying JR (X-388S, PCM 10 SXII). Sell your wife, mortgage the kids, do what you have to do; but get a WC2. Since you've obviously already considered the money involved and seem prepared to pay it, strike while your resolve is firm.

You will be forever thanking yourself... and saying, "WHY didn't I do this sooner???"

As to the machine choice; being a mere "sport hack", I certainly don't have as much knowledge or experience with the ships than Gordie does; you can bank what he says. But from what you guys across the pond would call a "clubman's perspective", I think you want the Fury.

I have a Sport Trainer, slightly upgraded. It is a marvelous ship, but took no little time to build and set up. Not relevant, I know; until the time comes to repair/rebuild. The Pro is indeed a marvelous piece of engineering; and it has the highest parts count in a line of machines known for high parts counts.

I have looked closely at three Fury Experts, and flown one. The same degree of MA engineering quality is there, but greatly simplified. And they fly as good as you or I can hold them; bet on it. Will the Pro fly "better"? Perhaps in the hands of a Mark Tilbury, Cliff Hiatt, Gordie Meade, etc.

What I'm saying is that, if I should trash my current ST beyond the point of reasonable repair, I'll replace it with a Fury. And my ST is somewhat less complex than a Pro. Sure, the Pro is the "best". But can you really utilize the several hundred extra pounds worth of precision it has? That money would buy you digital servos and plenty of fuel. And I''l bet you would be just like me; a Pro won't fly any better for you than a carefully-built and set-up Fury.

Steve

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07-16-2002 02:27 AM  16 years agoPost 8
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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Faulty Engineering
I'll remind Jason of that when I see him next time.

I also had an elevator pivot bolt shear off on a Pro2 and thought it was a crummy design.......... fortunately I had the model balanced a touch tail heavy and was able to land the model with no damage so I got to inspect the model to find the problem.... which I did. I was so concerned with getting all the slop out of the elevator linkage that I gorilla tightened the bolt holding the elevator bellcrank. Now this is a shoulder bolt that bottoms out in the collective axle to space the bellcrank. Mine had just a touch of slop in it (all those bolts have a little tolerance in them so few fit perfectly) . When I REALLY leaned on this bolt to remove the slop, I stretched it AND weakened it which was obvious on inspection. When I redid the model I was VERY careful to shim that bolt to fit correctly rather than overtightening it. End problem. I flew that particular Pro for 3 more years without a problem and have 3 other Pros including 2 Pro IIKs, all done the same way without a failure. I use the Pro for FAI competition but I had 4 of them at one time and was 3Ding them as sport models also. I really liked them for this application because they had over 25 degrees of collective available before stuff started to bind. When I got my first Fury (ser # 7, a preproduction prototype that was built from kit parts) I started selling my sport Pros and them my FAI Pros and now have only one left. It is still tight, precise, and contest capable, as demonstrated by a second place finish in FAI at the Orlando contest this May. Anyway, if you fly a Pro and have overtightened the elevator pivot bolt to remove slop, I suggest you replace the bolt with a new one and if you are concerned with the bolt working loose, use green or even red loctite rather than overtightening it.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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07-16-2002 03:30 AM  16 years agoPost 9
spincycl

rrVeteran

Marietta, GA

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Elevator Bolt breaking
A similar problem also exists on the ST, CT and SE as well. The elevator bellcrank is held by one 3mm bolt, and if it goes, so does all elevator control. (on newer ST's even the collective has a single bolt taking the abuse)

Overtightening will fatigue the metal and may cause premature failure, but I do think that it is somewhat of a weak link when you think of the forces on it.

I kind-of solved it on my SE by converting it to CCPM. Yes, the control redundancy is gone, but at least any one 3mm bolt only takes about 1/3 of the control force and feedback. On the ST I still have, I re-did the push pulls and now use a 6-32 bolts on them for extra assurance.

I have a buddie who does not EVER over tighten anything and he lost elevator control on an ST, and BAM! Funny, the older ST's and Xcell 60's did not have push-pulls on elevator and collective. Yeah, the servo took the side loads, but they didn't fail (as) often.

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07-16-2002 08:53 PM  16 years agoPost 10
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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I had a similar problem with elevator standoff, but fortunately it was on the ground when it broke off, whew!

Also, In regards to the WC vs. the WC2 there is a big difference. I fly a friends Fury with a WC and the difference is dramadtic compared to my Super 8. I have a better feeling of the helicopter even during spool up. The collective stick on the WC serious is just so plush, my super 8 doesn't even compare. I've fiddled with the tension on my Super 8 and have it just about as good as I can get it, but never like a 9z. It feels like your just squeezing out the collective, I love the feel. Cyclic control is crisp. The radio feels really good in my hands. I have yet to fly a Fury with a WC2 although I had a chance once, but failed to take advantage of it. Considering the WC2 processor is about 2 to 3 times faster than the regular WC, I'm sure it would feel even better.

I've done research on the bench vs a Super 8, WC and WC2 which are all Futaba products. No JR products tested. With the super 8 and digital servos the swashplate noticably wobbles. I tested a couple of super 8's against this and they all wobble exactly the same way. I've tried using mixes, but it just doesn't work smooth and it will actually screw things up. Then I tested a WC on the same Fury controlled by a Super 8 with digital servos. As soon as the WC radio controlled the heli, the wobble was DRASTICALLY reduced. I then tried the Super 8 on the same helicopter again and the noticable wobble came back. I tried this a couple of times and it was clear the servos responded more in sync with the WC. Then I got a hold of a WC2 and tried it on the same helicopter. Well, the servos responded perfectly and there wasn't even a hint of swashplate wobble. Absolutely wobble free!!! Went back to the super 8 control and the wobble came back. In FAI, I would assume a swashplate that wobbles just on pitch inputs would not be good. Then if that wasn't the end all to end all, I saw a WC2 controlling 9202's perfectly in sync. So, I've come to the conclusion through testing that out of all the Futaba products, the 9z WC2 is the absolute best radio on the market and has far superior CCPM capabilites. I believe, but have not tested, that the 9Z WC2 is superior over the JR 10X in CCPM as well.

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07-17-2002 06:23 PM  16 years agoPost 11
Chris Hinds

rrApprentice

Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

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I think that answers everything :D
Thanks for all the info! Great resource this

One thing that does certainly hold water I think is Steve saying the Pro may fly better but I won't notice the 'better' at my level of abilty (just on circuits etc) So the cheaper Fury FAI on its release will most likely be as good as it gets. And by the time I am up with Gordie and the rest the Pro will be old news and I will be old too So by that time I reckon there will be the ultimate Fury FAI that flies like a Pro.

I hear ya on the WC2 too! Got to have a play with one and it is a bit good. Heavier than the X388, but boy is it nice. One will make its way to me shortly. Think I shall have my boss pay my wages direct to Cyberheli

Cheers


Chris

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07-18-2002 09:55 PM  16 years agoPost 12
a_korandr

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

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elevator bolt
i've hadmy pro2s for years. i can hardly believe that 3mm bolt can break. servo would be the first to go, not the bolt. yet, that bolt does not care the load. think about it. it is all (almost) taken by the servo.

i agree with GM1, that you need to pay attention when you assemble that part. i use green locktide. besides you'd be very careful when you tighten that bolt, as you have 2 BB in there.

there is always a chance that smth may have a hidden damage, though.

as far as to Fury/FAI. as soon as i read this thread - i called MA and talked to Bob. He told me that they are testing this new model. and his expectation was that it'll be full CF kit, all CNC, including rotor head, that 'we have never seen before'.

the reason MA designs a new RH - is the hovering stability. but we may not see Fury/FAI until this fall.

GM1, you said you had flown both Fury/FAI and Pro2. did you really mean the new Fury/FAI that is not even in production ?

Andrey.

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07-19-2002 04:07 PM  16 years agoPost 13
a_korandr

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

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Fury/FAI
David,
i'd love to see that new heli. And especially the new RH.

I am glad the MA is Pro-Active in their product line. I am sure that MA's pilots have all the new stuff, that is under development, how else could MA test it and/or make a new model better than previous ones.

Do you know if they plan to have 140 degrees swashplate too ib Fury/FAI ?

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07-19-2002 06:00 PM  16 years agoPost 14
Mopzilla

rrVeteran

USA

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hey guys, what is the difference between all these forms of heli competition, like 3D, FAI, etc. Thanks!

-----------------
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

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07-22-2002 02:52 PM  16 years agoPost 15
vagpas

rrApprentice

Thessaloniki-Greece

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What size engines are we talking here guys?

Is the Fury better suited to the .80 /.90 engines for F3c

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