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MS Composit › Too much $$ to upgrade...but I will anyway!!!!
12-13-2004 02:15 AM  13 years agoPost 1
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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Ok....I have been flying helis for a short time. Feeling cocky I purchased the MS Hornet II. I got it flying today. I smacked it around pretty much all day. I think I may just cut my losses. I dumped a lot of money in this little heli and because I am lacking in knowledge for programming my radio properly and just plain dumb mistakes...I am going to put it down for a while.

One of the major problems is the lack of responsiveness. It really spools up fast.....once in the air, it feels as if it is on skates and I can not seem to hover in a tight area. It just does not respond the way I had hoped.

Now...I have a damaged Hornet II. I need set screws for the tail grippers to hold the shaft. I broke them trying to get them to hold better. My landing gear is broken and patched up with spring wire thread and CA. One of the spherical ball broke off my swash plate. Gued it back...seems fine ....but i do not trust it.

What would you suggest as an upgrade to hold the grippers on the shaft better and the Bell Hiller upgrade with the aluminum swash plate. Is all of that really worth the $$ or should I just fix with stock parts and try again?

Dave

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12-13-2004 03:13 AM  13 years agoPost 2
imsofaman

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Northern NJ

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OK...I dumped another $150.00 into this little heli. I got some new set screws for the tail, landing gear, conical tail pinion, new swash plate...the plastic one, Bell Hiller upgrade. I think I am crazy for doing this, but maybe...the next time, I will have better luck. With the Bell Hiller upgrade, I hope to have better control. I am NOT going to dump serious money into the aluminum upgrades until I know I can really fly it the way I want to. I have seen some crazy videos of this heli in action....I know the problems I am having are all me because this heli is a great flying bird!

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12-13-2004 04:09 AM  13 years agoPost 3
hornet dave

rrKey Veteran

Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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woah.. when you say "What would you suggest as an upgrade to hold the grippers on the shaft better", I think we have a problem.

There are only two set screws used on the H-II tail. One end of the set screw is screwed into the tail rotor blade grip and should NOT turn freely, it should be tight. The other end of the set screw is coated with grease and threaded into the tail rotor hub. This end of the set screw should turn very freely, you want to screw it in all the way and then back it off like one turn so that it aligns with the tail rotor pitch slider ears and pivots freely along it's entire range of travel. You need to screw in both tail rotor grips as equally as possible as you can. You do not want one tail rotor blade to be further out than the other as it causes vibrations.

The set screws do NOT secure the tail rotor hub to the tail rotor shaft. The hub is factory bonded to the shaft and should not twist on the tail rotor output shaft. If you twist the hub while trying to install the shaft into the tail rotor gear, you can break the factory bond. When installing the shaft, use a vice or pliers or something to press the shaft straight into the gear, and do not put any force on the tail rotor hub itself.

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12-13-2004 05:14 AM  13 years agoPost 4
imsofaman

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Northern NJ

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My hub came loose! I thought that maybe I had not assembled it correctly. I thought that the two set screws secured the hub on the shaft. OOPS! So...now what I do? I guess I should order a new shaft?
ANOTHER thing I have to order!

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12-13-2004 06:59 AM  13 years agoPost 5
JVBAV8

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Honolulu, HI

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use green loctite to secure the hub back onto the shaft

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12-13-2004 10:44 AM  13 years agoPost 6
imsofaman

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Northern NJ

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I have no idea what i did to make it so loose. It was actually sloppy on the shaft. I figured it was trashed anyway....so I soldered it onto the shaft. The solder sticks nice to the hub...but not too well on the shaft. It eventually worked.

I have it back together again. Still....it is a little squirrelly in the hover. I took out a lot of the expo....it really did not help much. I have it set up in the normal mode with a really mild pitch curve. At half stick....throttle is wide open and the pitch starts and a little pst the half way mark, she is air born. If I try to lift off slowly....it drags to the left....if i compensate with right stick......it get in the air but vears to the right and I know I am over compensating, but it is as if I have no choice. I took it outside which was a mistake because the wind grabbed it! I did not hurt anything....but it was a wild ride. In a large area....I may be OK. But to be honest...I bout it so I could fly in my house during the winter. Maybe I should have gotten the fixed pitch version?

Here is what is bugging me the most....I have a Corona 120 and a Voyager E. I built and reapaired and have flown both of them with no problem. Why cant I fly this little Hornet II well?

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12-13-2004 11:40 AM  13 years agoPost 7
RotorHead486

rrKey Veteran

England

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Hiya,

Sounds about right Janek!!

A couple of guys i know have Zoom 400's, 1 is pretty much standard apart from a brushless Hacker motor and carbon main's but it's still topping £500!!! the other one is similair with a hacker brushless motor but this one has all the 'Bling' heliup upgrades, bel mixes, tail pushrod upgrade!! you name it it's got it!!! and this is topping £750 at least! it may be more than that.

These little heli's are amazing to see fly, remember seeing Bob's at 3DM and around the fly-ins this year and it goes pretty darn well!! amazing little thing, a Hornet 2 i think it is.

But like you said, for the price a good I/C heli can be bought. I bet you could probably get a R90 STD nearly kitted out or even a R50 complete for the same money!!

The thing with these little machines is power and the LiPo has made a huge difference to these machines, they provide the power and the flight times.

The most amazing electric helis i have seen are the MA X-Cell fury Ion X and the 3DMP at 3DM!! WOW!! these machines are awesome!! electrics have never really grabbed me but these were just amazing!!
But a 50cell Lipo for the 3DMP!! Ouch!!!

Cya!
Rotorhead486

One Reason For Crashing'Rogue Servo Bent on World Domination'!!
FLP Flight Team

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12-13-2004 02:41 PM  13 years agoPost 8
OT45

rrApprentice

Kingston, NY

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imsofaman,

It seems every time after I crash I spend many hours getting the HII trimmed out again. I'm used to it at this point. You have to pay attention to every detail or else risk crashing on the next flight. Don't fly if something doesn't feel right.
I think you will like the BH upgrade. Did you get weighted blades for it?
If you got the stock swash I suggest getting a ball in swash mod.
Did you work out your throttle issues? What speed control are you flying with. Most likely the controller is seeing full throttle below your max throttle stick position. Fix that first! Once you have a smooth throttle/pich relationship then you can work on the tail/gyro.
Where abouts in N Jersey are you?

scratch building is not just for planks

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12-13-2004 06:03 PM  13 years agoPost 9
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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I got the plastick BH upgrade and another plastic swash plate. I have the CF blades...weighted....not sure. I am using a razor 350 with a pheonix 25amp ESC, have not checked the rpms yet...seems like it is hauling A$$.......I need a brass or steel pinion, the pastic lets loose if I bump something.

I think I have the pitch curve very conservative in the normal mode. Once I figure out how to do the throttle lock on my JR 8103...I will be good.

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12-13-2004 07:09 PM  13 years agoPost 10
hornet dave

rrKey Veteran

Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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use just a small dab of JB weld to hold the plastic pinion onto the razor shaft. It won't come loose that way, but you can still remove the pinion with a pinion puller.

Keep an eye on the motor temperature, especially after hovering for any length of time. I suspect it will run hot.

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12-13-2004 09:55 PM  13 years agoPost 11
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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I also have a Typhoon Micro 6....do you think that would be better? I would have to use a larger pinion but it has more torque. I was at a cross roads when deciding what to power it with ( with what I had on my shelf.... ) and figured that the Razor would give me high rpms and they are designed for micro helis. So....I dropped it in. One thing I have noticed....it seems tail heavy. Not a lot....but it was drifting back a little and the the CG when being balnced by the fly bar....dropps to the rear by about 3 degrees. Not sure if that is acceptable or not. I compensated with down elevator and it seemed OK.

For my R700 reciever, I took off the case, scanned the image of the cover and printed it out on my printer. Then I cut it to size, and put a coat of clear laquer on the front and back. Once dry, I folded it around the reciever and glued it. Looks cool and is light as heck!

Maybe if I would use a lighter battery....it would be less nose heavy?

I did not think of JB Weld at the time! Great idea! That sticks to anything! Thanks. see the photos attached....

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12-14-2004 01:49 AM  13 years agoPost 12
OT45

rrApprentice

Kingston, NY

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imsofaman,

You might want to slide your battery in sideways. Perpendicular to your current mounting so that it corrects your rear CG. I like what you did with the RX.

scratch building is not just for planks

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12-14-2004 02:06 AM  13 years agoPost 13
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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Great idea about the battery! I am not going to touch it untill my parts come in. I really hope that the BH upgrade will make the difference. I saw a movie of a guy flying the HECK out of Hornet....flipping and flopping around an indoor tennis court then out in the country somewhere. Man....the guy really could fly. At the end of the movie.....the main rotor stopped and he was using the original plastic swash plate...but he did have the BH upgrade.

I will never be able to do all of the 3D stuff....but if that upgrade can allow me to hover in a tight area....I will be happy!

Dave

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12-14-2004 02:29 AM  13 years agoPost 14
hornet dave

rrKey Veteran

Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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I dont know anything about the typhoon 6, so you're a guinea pig if you try it. The razor 350 is a little less efficient than the razor MH-V2 in this application, which may or may not be a big deal. I haven't heard any reports of the rz-350 on the hornet, so I can't say it works or doesnt work, but I can say that you are in experimental territory to some extent. The simulations I tried, however, did say that the 350 should have gobs of power. Just check your motor temperature after a minute or two of hovering. If it's fine, try flying for 3 minutes, check the temp, etc, so you know if it tends to overheat or not, and how long you can fly before having to let it cool. When you get a chance, be sure to check the headspeed. If you're doing any acro, I think the H-2 guys are mostly in the 2600-2800 rpm range.

To check the CG of the hornet, lift it on opposite sides of the main gear. Adjust things around so that the CG balances as close as you can get to the main shaft. If you use trim to correct an out of balance situation, it will make rolls corkscrew and inverted flying will be all out of trim.

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12-14-2004 02:45 AM  13 years agoPost 15
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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OK...glad I decide to start this thread. So much awesome info you guys have store in the memory banks! Ok....I will check the CG the way you sugested. I did my CG by balancing on the fly bar and would try to gett he frame and tailboom level.

My motor does get warm. Not to the point of not being able to touch it. I may do some research on the motors.

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12-14-2004 03:04 AM  13 years agoPost 16
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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What do you guys think of the Astro Flight Mighty Micro 010 ten turn Helicopter Motor and 10 amp speed control?

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12-14-2004 09:38 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Al Magaloff

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

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Take a look at the Twister

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12-14-2004 10:50 AM  13 years agoPost 18
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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If I would choose that...then I would be just wasting my Typhoon Micro 6. Pretty much the same rpm to K/volt. It is a good looking motor though! My experience with the high gearing for the outrunners tells me that a belt drive system is the most efficient and quiet! I have that on my Corona now. Very SWEET!

I did look at the Hacker BL20. I think for now, I will stick with what have, the Razor 350.

I tried hovering in my basement again last night.....yes....I am "Mr. Relentless" according to my wife! LOL! I was actually in the air for a little bit. Just not enough control. I did get it better by using some graphite on all of the ball links. I also increased my travel to 150% on all servos except the rudder. It did loosen up enough to stay in the air for about five sec. or so at a time. Better than what it was before. But I beleive that the BH upgrade will give what I am looking for.....I hope!


Dave

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12-14-2004 10:57 AM  13 years agoPost 19
imsofaman

rrApprentice

Northern NJ

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Also....have you guys notoiced that the links from the flybar to the swash plate rub along the side of the blade grippers? This must deaden the response of the flybar quite a bit! I will do some modification ont those parts later to see if I can get everything loose and free to get better control.

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12-14-2004 04:54 PM  13 years agoPost 20
hornet dave

rrKey Veteran

Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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You need to flip those oval links around, I think you have them installed backwards. If you look closely, you will notice that the oval section is offset a few MM's from the ball links. Install the oval links so that the oval is offset towards the outside, that will provide clearance from the blade grips.

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