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MS Composit › wow, amazing climb rate/tail authority
12-07-2004 09:19 AM  13 years agoPost 1
flytech

rrVeteran

Sunland, CA

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i've flown these things (hornets) for a couple yrs on/off now. and introduced myself to cp a few months ago.

tonite i spent a couple hours tuning - getting rid of any/all bind out of the tail (ie; more gear mesh work - to a more exact degree) and un-slopping my not so great new alum. tail pitch slider/tail blade grip combo, tracking/trimming main blades and of course countless pitch/throttle curve + gyro gain combos - all to increase the head speed.

oh my goodness...

from a 3" inch hover, i can punch the throttle wfo and the thing shoots up like a rocket w/complete tail authority!! i'm completely amazed at this thing. not even an H2 - it's just a hornet cp, razor+cc10+TP1320, g-10(mia) frame, gy240, electron6, delrin tail gears, 40mm tail output shaft, w/MS CF CP main blades and tail mounted HS50. now i really know why we love this little heli soo much!

i've been learning FFF/figure8s @ the park next door daily without fail for the past month w/this cp - i just can't wait to try this thing out tomorrow a.m.

i probably need to ask you folks what's next on the learning to fly list after one masters turns/banks, figure8s.. i'll probably try my hand at stall turns now that i can really be confident w/this thing's new found power/authority!!

ps: thanks to Walt for all the tips on this and many other forums!

so happy.. {{bliss}}

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12-07-2004 09:25 AM  13 years agoPost 2
alanhsu

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, Canada

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Have you experienced any phasing problem?

meaning that, a forward cyclic input doesn't tilt the rotor exactly forward. you'll see some left cyclic input mix in there if you have phasing problem.

Just fire it up and don't lift off the ground. input some forward cyclic and see how the rotor tilts. if its a bit off to the left then let us know.
I have a HB CP and I have phasing problem. It is said the higher headspeed will rid of the problem, but you also suffer the danger of exploding head. So I am just wondering if Hornet also has this sympton.
I do expect it in Hornet as well, since at the same headspeed with the same blade, it really doesn't matter what bird you are running, you should see the same problems.

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12-07-2004 09:30 AM  13 years agoPost 3
flytech

rrVeteran

Sunland, CA

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i think i probably did, here's why..
a week ago, as i said, have been practicing 8s @ the park. well when i bank left, i noticed that i have to apply a bit of right cyclic input otherwise the bird increases it's left bank and makes me crash. so my guess is that i have a slight issue with the phase problem. i'll keep an eye on this as i fly tomorrow. - thanks Alan..

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12-07-2004 12:51 PM  13 years agoPost 4
yplas

rrNovice

Nice South East FRANCE

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hello,
you are both talking about differents thing.
Phasing do happend on every heli when you hold it (in your hand or on the ground!!!) it's due to gyroscopic effect : your hand is applying a force on the heli (not to tilt forward) and this force induce the phasing.

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12-07-2004 06:17 PM  13 years agoPost 5
alanhsu

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, Canada

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From airwolfrc
"Phasing is the difference between inputs to the swash plate, the resulting pitch changes of the main blades and the tilting of the rotor disk.

It is 90º in an ideal world. It is 90º because of gyroscopic precession."

I am just too tired to type it myself.

Read this post to understand more phasing
http://www.runryder.com/t124903p1/?highlight=phasing


So the thing is, we are experiencing more of a 80 degree phasing rather than 90 degrees.

You should be able to correct it on your radio.
I use channel mixer to mix alieron with elevator and then elevator with alieron. But its really diffcult to get the mix right since my headspeed changes slightly when I input cyclic control. (headspeed is somewhat proportional to amount of phasing problem you see.)

Our only options is to run a crazy high headspeed.
Or use governer mode on esc together with radio adjustments.

I am experimenting the idea of using longer and heavier blades, maybe that will do things right.


Note FP birds suffer a LOT of phasing problem, but people tend not to notice it since it doesn't really matter whether you have 100% clean precise control or not, you can still fly it pretty well.

When you want to fly precise movements, 3D or not 3D. It is very important to have precise control over the bird. And phasing becomes much more important.
With incorrect phasing, your heli will roll to the side everytime you try to flip or loop. Imagine flying more advance menuvers.

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12-07-2004 11:04 PM  13 years agoPost 6
OT45

rrApprentice

Kingston, NY

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When I was flying my HII stock, I didn't like the control input delay caused by the flybar only system. After upgrading to the Bell Hiller and weighted blades the control became much more crisp.
Remember, the stock CP Hornets are not able to change cyclic blade pitch. This only occurs with the BH installed. So, to what extent is phasing affecting a model equiped without the Bell Hiller?

scratch building is not just for planks

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12-08-2004 02:17 PM  13 years agoPost 7
yplas

rrNovice

Nice South East FRANCE

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Okay now I understand what phasing really mean!!!
But I was refering to this http://www.hornet-heli.com/cgi-bin/...t=000174#000003;
using the wrong word to name it!!

Thanks for the link about phasing very instructive indeed!

yann

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12-08-2004 10:00 PM  13 years agoPost 8
flytech

rrVeteran

Sunland, CA

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i'm still looking if this happens. my FFF and banking has become very controllable &stable now. as such i'm able to fly more confident and faster (looks like a good 20-25mph?). as far as the phasing goes. i'll have to run a flight just to observe that as i go into FF motion...

leaving work now to fly!!!

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