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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Today it begins - Raptor Gasser!
12-06-2004 12:15 PM  13 years agoPost 1
Tom Viper

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SWEDEN

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A week ago, I bought a JR Voyager GS, and one old Kalt Baron GS. I spent last week going thue the Baron, setting it up after my head (don´t have a manual, and this being my first gassers). This weekend I took my Baron out to the field, wanted to try the engine (had´nt run on 10 years or so) and it started up on the 4 or 5th pull. I had a friend who knows about these engines with me, he´s competing in 1/5 scale cars, he tuned the engine so know it starts on the 2´nd pull and delivers some nice and smooth power. Well... after the engine was running, some hover took place, then it happend... The choke went "on" and the motor stopped... No worries, after a gentle auto I removed the chooke handle, pulled once and it was running again.

I wonder if it flies... well, it does, it flies very nice acctualy.
After 6-7 flights, it was time to pack the stuff back in the car.
Cleaning? There is nothing to clean!

I have now dismantled the hole thing, and gone thrue every part and cleaned everything up so it looks like new. When I took it to pieces I found that the boom was cracked, so I am going to replace it with a cut down JR Vigor boom, hope it works. The JR Boom is 22mm, and I belive the Kalt Baron boom is 21,5mm.

Anyway, I am completely sold on gassers, so, yesterday I bought a Raptor 60, which I am going to convert in to Gas. Just beacause the Raptor flies so good. I dont think the conversion will be that hard, the motor will be mounted on a bottom plate, mounted between the skids and frame, and use a L-shape alu profile as support. Some cutting will be nessesary on the back frames, or a new ALU one constructed.

The bigger issue is the drive train, I would very much like to keep the R60-90 main gear, the smallest one, I belive it is the 93T one.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas on what pinion would suit?
And how to get a Raptor clutch on a Zenoa G231 PUH?

I will post my build here, so you can follow the progress.
Any info, ideas and tips will be very welcome.

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12-06-2004 12:36 PM  13 years agoPost 2
Rappy da Raptor

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Dorset

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Any photos aswell??

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12-06-2004 12:53 PM  13 years agoPost 3
Tom Viper

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SWEDEN

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Hehe, it will come... I will start messuring everything tonight, and see how much work on the frames to get the motor in.

Then there is that clutch/pinion problem...
But I will succeed with this, there is no looking back, to late for that now! Even if I don´t get super power, I will have a nice (and cheap) plattform for improvements! I am not so keen on the Predator, even if its a nice ship, to much problems with parts over here...

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12-06-2004 08:29 PM  13 years agoPost 4
AGRAV8

rrProfessor

Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

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pinion
14 tooth gives 6,57 with your 93 tooth main

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12-06-2004 09:18 PM  13 years agoPost 5
terje

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Mysen, Norway

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Seems like an interresting project. Lot of work though, Why not go for a bergen Intrepid gasser? Great personal service, and parts within 3-5 days of ordering. At least here in Norway anyways. Plus they're great flying machines...

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12-06-2004 11:37 PM  13 years agoPost 6
daggit

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Claremont, MN

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I think a Raptor gasser would be a cool project. Havn't seen it done yet. Go for it

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12-07-2004 02:08 AM  13 years agoPost 7
rc-whirlybird

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Shelby Twp, Michigan,USA

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Someone in Japan has done it before. I don't remember the web site ???
Raptor gasser pic.

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12-07-2004 03:30 AM  13 years agoPost 8
Aaron29

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USA

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..

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12-07-2004 11:52 AM  13 years agoPost 9
revman

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Leicester UK

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Gs baron
Want to sell it?
I can sell you a boom, your choice..long or the standard short one ( same as Baron 50).
Kevin.

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12-07-2004 01:17 PM  13 years agoPost 10
sabooo

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Allentown, PA area

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Please post as many photos as you can either during or after the project. I know this sort of thing is beyond my abilities to actually pull off myself, but I really enjoy the solutions people come up with to the problems they run into in an adventure like this.



I was going to take up Origami, but someone said the local club folded.

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12-08-2004 03:44 AM  13 years agoPost 11
rainflyer

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dead

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John Cadwell posted this about a source for metric gear stock:

"As such, SDP-SI (http://www.sdp-si.com) sells metric spur gear stock. With a lathe and very little work a 20 tooth metric pinion of modulus 1.0 would yield a final drive ratio of 4.55 with a 91 tooth spur gear. That would give 2000 RPM on the head at the MVVS engine redline of 9000 RPM. And it would probably fit without much work.
They also sell spur gears themselves that could be machined on in 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, and 20 tooth."

I ordered the catalog and checked with buddy who is a crackerjack mechanical engineer (and a motorhead) . He confirms the gear in a Raptor should be metric with a moduls of 1.0.
The SDP-SI gear stock sells for under $20. A bit of lathe work and your set.

I think you would want a 16 tooth gear. (1:5.69) The Vario Benzin I fly has a gear ratio of 1:6.43 and can spin 710 mm mains at 1600 rpm with a Z23.
I was thinking along the same path. I would try to fit the Predator clutch fan hub on the motor and then adapt a SDP-SI gear on to the clutch hub.

How does the Zenoah motor fit in the Raptor frames? Could the predator bottom plate be used with aluminum angle to mate with the Raptor frames?

Please keep me posted as I hate my Vario tank and am ready to go back to Raptors.

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12-08-2004 09:52 AM  13 years agoPost 12
Tom Viper

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SWEDEN

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News flash!

This is going to be easier then I thought!

After some cutting last night, the motor is inside the frames.
Not much work to do this, bottom fan shroud, and back metall frame, old motor mount.

The really really good parts is that the Kalt fan fits the Raptor fan house.
But thats not all... the Raptor clutch fits straight on the Kalt Fan hub!
What where the chances of that???

And, the Raptor fan fits the motor as well, but I don´t know if it will cool enough?

This is very good news, now I have to constuct a motor mount. Do you think just a bottom plate will be enough? Or does a gasser also need the side mounts?

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12-21-2004 07:42 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Tom Viper

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SWEDEN

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Ok, I orderd a P Carbon... and cool down and make everything right with the Raptor Gasser.

Motor is in the chassie, cut the old IC motor mounts on the sideframe off, make some new front sideframe (where the plastic cowl/gearmounts are) and the motor drops in quite easly.

Now to the big issue that haven´t been solved... GEAR RATIO.

I want to run a 14T pinion and a 88T main gear.
What modulus are the century pinions/mains?

Can anyone mail or post a pic of the main gear on the P?

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12-21-2004 08:10 AM  13 years agoPost 14
rc-whirlybird

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Shelby Twp, Michigan,USA

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My carbon P-gas come with 14t pinion and 88t main gear. But I change to use 13t pinion and get more torque to run 720mm blades....

Some more in my gallery.

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12-21-2004 12:48 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Coolheli

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Mississauga,Ca

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rc-whirlybird
Can you please measure the outside diameter and centre opening of that gear.
I'll also need clutch diameter and height if you don't mind.
Thanks in advance.

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12-21-2004 01:44 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Heli-Driver

rrElite Veteran

Arlington, TX

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I like the way the guy did the collective making it push pull... pretty slick! wonder what that pig weighs???



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters

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12-22-2004 02:19 AM  13 years agoPost 17
rainflyer

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dead

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Tom, I am also working on a gasser Raptor. I scored a Z230H with a fan shroud and fan from Bergin. Larry Bergen has been helped me with info about their self aligning clutch.
Bergen's pinion gear is a modulus 1.0 and has a 3/8- 24 thread. This also implies the main gear on a Bergin gassser is metric modulus 1.0.
I will be ordering a Raptor 90 next month for my conversion. I will first try flying on the TT 91 tooth main gear and a 14 tooth pinion on the Bergen clutch. That will give me 1:6.5.
Thanks for the info about fitting the Zenoah into a Raptor. Keep it coming!

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12-22-2004 05:39 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Coolheli

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Mississauga,Ca

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91t main and 14t pinion may work with bigger blades but I think that the engine would be pushed to constantly work past the best performance range.In order to get 1500rpm on the rotor just for hover you will push the motor to 9750rpm.What will happen when you start flying it? I don't see this engine withstanding constant revs in 11000 range.Myself, I'll try 91t main and 15t pinion.(when the parts arrive)
Is the bergen clutch and bell a direct fit?

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12-22-2004 05:52 AM  13 years agoPost 19
AGRAV8

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Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

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FWIW
I am running 7.07 ratio, 1800, 1900, 2000 headspeed on my 231 stock engine. 6.7 would be perfect.

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12-22-2004 12:47 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Tom Viper

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SWEDEN

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This is good news! Now maybe even the tricky gear ratio problem can be solved. What need to done more, is to fix the lower raptor frame + fan cowl, or better, replace it with some fabricated alu frame. This is the easy part.

I tried everything with the old Kalt motor first, but after taking out the new Zeonah from the Voyager GS, it´s even a easier fit, as the new Z231 is much smaller.

My Carbon P is on the way, I sold my Voyager GS, to big!

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