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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Shogun 400 to SuperCobra plastic toy: Official build thread.
12-11-2004 10:05 PM  13 years agoPost 81
ScaleBradrrApprentice - Longwood, FL USA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Finally got some daylight to paint in today. Less than ideal conditions, cold and windy. Used Tamiya acrylics and my (new) airbrush. Still waiting on the 9 tooth pinion for final flight adjustments. I still have to add lettering and finish detailing the model, but here's a look at the base color scheme.

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12-11-2004 10:06 PM  13 years agoPost 82
ScaleBradrrApprentice - Longwood, FL USA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

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12-12-2004 07:26 PM  13 years agoPost 83
JoeB1

rrApprentice

Ireland, Wicklow

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Looks bloody great Bradbird.
Any chance of seeing pics of your tail drive before you put er bac together?
Why did you decide to spray what looked to be a great model and the fact that you can buy it already in camo?
Have you thought of putting a few minature LEDs into it? I am thinking that way along with a moving nose gun but I thought you may have already pondered on that and choice to leave them out.
Still waiting on my models to arrive. Hopefully Monday

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12-13-2004 02:25 AM  13 years agoPost 84
ScaleBradrrApprentice - Longwood, FL USA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I decided to paint it, mostly because I didn't like the Cobra down the side. It looked too "GI Joe" for my tastes. Also, I haven't seen the camo version in person but wasn't real crazy about the colors. Also that camo would be very hard to see when flying. I have this problem with my camo A-10, it is VERY easy to loose orientation in the sky. Could be disasterous when flying a heli. Plus, I don't have any desert camo aircraft in my collection. I'll get an inside picture later this week. I tried to fly her a little today, but I'm still fighting a jerky tail, and now a death wobble when taking off from grass. I need to reinforce the upper area of the mechanics near the head. Here's some more pics, still have to add lettering and weathering to finish her off. And, STILL waiting for 9 tooth pinions to become available before I can fine tune it.

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12-13-2004 02:26 AM  13 years agoPost 85
ScaleBradrrApprentice - Longwood, FL USA - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

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12-13-2004 06:14 AM  13 years agoPost 86
MADGUNS

rrApprentice

Kadena AB Japan (Okinawa)

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Wow Bradbird
Thats a neat paintjob. What are the Tamiya colors that you used? They
dont follow the FS standard but it looks like you got the colors just right.
The is a hobby shop in New Mexico that makes all kinds of custom decals and paint masks for models. They do a really good job.
They made me a set of custom paintmasks for my Guillows P-47 thunderbolt project. They did the tail numbers the AAC chevrons and even the nose art. All markings on my plane will be paint. They can make anything. The best part is that they only charge about $20.00 a model, no matter what you want them to make. All they need is what you want the size of each word , number and whether you want it color vinal or paint masks.
When they made me my paint masks I simply showed them a picture of a P-47 in a squadron book, and gave them the actual sizes of the decals

For example if you wanted .......MARINES 5 inches long 1/2 inches tall in modern military font. She can get the masks down fairly small too.

http://www.hobbies-n-stuff.com/calliegraphics.htm

Nice work!

Happiness is a belt fed weapon

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12-14-2004 04:31 AM  13 years agoPost 87
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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Thanks a lot for the link Madguns!!! That will save me a LOT of hassle. Tamiya acrylics in the glass bottles- base color Dark Yellow FS-60 and camo stripes Khaki XF-49. The pictures I found of the real Cobra in desert scheme were only one color. That was my intention, but it looked too bland, so I did the highlight color. I think once I do the lettering, then weather it over probably with another dust coat of Dark yellow the camo will be less obvious. PROGRESS REPORT: I decided to go with a split pinion. Went to the LHS, picked up a 9 tooth for the main rotor, and installed an 11 tooth for the tail. Took a liitle length off with a file, and installed with loctite. Did some quick hovers, and WOW the lift feels great, very responsive. BUT still have that odd tail jerking- not really a wag....but I'm onto something here....I am going to scream if this has been the problem all along...I think my gyro is BAD!!! Futaba GY240. I've only now realized that when in heading hold mode, you cannot get the tail servo to syncronize. Plug in the battery, keeping everything absolutely still for a few seconds, I here the tail servo sync, It straightens the blades then SLOWLY keeps moving them until the servo travel ends. Nothing I can do will stop it from doing that. THEN, I realized, this gyro hasn't been used since I last flew the Shogun. That last flight ended up in a CRASH....I wonder if the gyro was damaged internally? Tomorrow I am going to buy a new one. I need another for my next scale project anyhow. I am going to switch them out and see....

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12-14-2004 07:22 AM  13 years agoPost 88
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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use subtrim on the rudder to stop the servo from moving.

Also verify that Revo is off.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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12-14-2004 11:17 PM  13 years agoPost 89
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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Revo is off. Subtrim at 0/center Always been that way, never had this problem before. I am going to mount the Cobra on the lazy susan again, znd start over with the tail setup, servo arm setup etc, using rate mode to see how it does. Then go into heading hold.

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12-15-2004 01:08 AM  13 years agoPost 90
K2-tokyo

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Tokyo, JAPAN

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It looks very realistic! Nicer than a 1/35 Academy plastic model!
Please be careful for the flexible wire because a miss installation
of that of HIROBO 30 UH-1 often causes a tail jerky and a wire cut
(this is an advice from a japanese expert of HIROBO fuselages).

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12-15-2004 01:24 AM  13 years agoPost 91
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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Update: Best flight so far tonight. Eolo tail blades came in today. Installed-verdict- too heavy. Doesn't like heavy blades back there- Nasty vibration and noise. Put stock Shogun tail blades back on. Also, found I had too much pitch in rear blades at neutral servo position. Had my best, longest hover tonight, actually with gyro gain at 0, or off....Turned it to around 35%, a little waggy. Cold temps outside (40 F) cancelled further testing until probably this weekend. It hovers long enough now to get some pictures!!! Seems like the bigger pinion with the stock tail blades is the way to go. Will try moving gyro to tail area later this week, also will try different holes on servo arm.

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12-15-2004 04:16 AM  13 years agoPost 92
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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K2-tokyo
What do you consider a bad installation of tail wire? Too steep of angles, too many bends? Mine is homemade, too.

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12-15-2004 06:50 AM  13 years agoPost 93
andre

rrApprentice

France

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Hello Bradbird ,
With my EC 135 i experienced the same problem than you.
First i did not have enough RPM with my 1320 Tanic battery ; Hovering was almost impossible and tail control was like i had no Gyro !
I put a 2000 Kokam 15C and things were much better
Hovering was easy but tail control was not : Too much pitch at tail bades and of course the gyro could not work well because there was no travel left for good working !
I changed for Eolo blades sanding them very carrefully where the screw goes to have both symetrical because you can get easily a lot of "tracking" if the work is not well done !!!
I think your vibrations come from this fact
I don't understand why you say they are too heavy !!!!!
I got a 401 futaba with same set up than i had with the trainer : around 35 % , hitec 50 , and last hole both rear and front .
At last i imagine you have enough RPM , because if not , you will not succeed ! I have got a lot , around 2200 like i used to have with Trainer
Hope this help
Regards
Andre

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12-15-2004 06:58 AM  13 years agoPost 94
Madman

rrVeteran

Roswell, GA

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Couple of quick suggestions...

We found after years with the Hornet and H2 that too much pitch in the MAIN blades made the GY240 incapable of holding. We ended up running probably +/- 5 or 6 degrees at 2400 or so on the mains. We means Eric Larson and the rest of us testing micros for the last few years here in Atlanta. Try that first. Too much main blade pitch will never let that gyro run right. Also, use the HS50 on the tail if you aren't already.

Second, I would get the GY240 to hover and set mechanic trims with it in NORMAL mode first, then reset to Heading Hold and adjust from there. It might, in fact, take one click of trim after that.

Try the main blade pitch thing first.

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12-15-2004 11:18 PM  13 years agoPost 95
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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Madman, you were right. I bumped up the throttle curve to something crazy like 90 at mid stick. Had a nice hover, a little windy out but tail seemed good, was bringing the gyro gain up a little at a time, but ran out of battery and daylight. Looks promising. I don't remember where the stick was at hover, so I can't tell you what the pitch was at. I really need a full day now without distractions to dial this thing in. Andre, by too heavy, I mean you can feel the weight difference, and those blades make the tail vibrate and scream like it's going to come apart. I had this same thing tonight with the stock tail blades but only for a second or too. I think it has to do with the flexible music wire in the plastic tube winding up too much at high rpm or trying to drive those heavier blades. Also my front coupler where the wire goes in, somehow the wire is about .5mm off center when spinning . I am going to try to correct this tonight and see if the noise/vibration goes away.

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12-16-2004 05:52 PM  13 years agoPost 96
K2-tokyo

rrApprentice

Tokyo, JAPAN

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Hi, Bradbird

The expert of HIROBO's UH-1 saw your flex linkage.
He said, your linkage is not so steep (compared with the UH-1)
and probably you will succeed in flying if you can choose a
good flexible wire; it must have sufficient tautness and
small resistance.
Further he pointed out that any flexible wire loses its tautness
in some hours (at least 10 drive hours), and then the tail control
becomes very bad (like no neutral, he said).
In the past, he was bothered by the choice of good flexible wires
to the UH-1 for 8 months. A strong wire is good in tautness, but
heavy and has a large resistance for rotating.
Moreover he said, the centering of the coupling is very important.
Indeed a bad centering induces strong vibrations and kills the
gyro performances.

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12-16-2004 07:57 PM  13 years agoPost 97
Madman

rrVeteran

Roswell, GA

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Just come off the pitch curve at both ends and yes the throttle curve will end up being 80% or so mid stick. If headspeed ends up like 2300+ and positive pitch around 6 deg max, you will find the gyro will hold.

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12-21-2004 01:04 AM  13 years agoPost 98
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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Update...The frustration is mounting. Forget about heading hold...too unpredictable. Hovers nice in rate mode. Was just getting the tail nice and smooth tonight when the flex cable broke- started to spin, only 4 feet up, put her down nice into the grass. Looks like my flexible music wire may not be so reliable. Considering using gearboxes, would need 3 of em, possibly Hornet 2 pieces, but need to look at one first. Or, I may break down and order the RC boat flex cable in the teflon tube. Will probably shelve this project for a little while. I need a break. Could have finished my Coast Guard .30 size by now.

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12-21-2004 01:28 AM  13 years agoPost 99
flyjet747

rrNovice

Orlando, FL USA

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Sorry to hear of your unfortunate luck with that music wire tail drive Brad. Come out to the Bithlo field on Friday if you're going to be around. It should be a blast. Our usual gang plans to be there. Come join us if you can.

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12-21-2004 01:35 AM  13 years agoPost 100
ScaleBrad

rrApprentice

Longwood, FL USA

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I'm leaving friday for the Keys, won't be back until sunday. I'll be around on new years weekend though. Going to bring the Raptor to the Keys to keep busy, picked up a new OS .37 for it at Graves today.

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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Shogun 400 to SuperCobra plastic toy: Official build thread.
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