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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerOther › raptor 30v2 elv. and al. servos
11-08-2004 01:47 AM  13 years agoPost 1
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
i have an Raptor 30v2 with an OS32 and an Airtronics RD8000 with a GY401/9253
i just noticed today that the elv. and al. serovs are moving real slow...hence mjy rolll rate and flip rate is sluggish....currenlty i am using the servos that came with the RD8000 which i figured to be like $30...el cheapo!
if you could give me some opinions on what servos to use....i don't have alot of money so keep it tight....
also if you could give me the price of digitals and what kind....and then the price of of analog's and how much more i need the digitals...are they really necessary...

Let me know


Thanks
~Will~

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11-08-2004 02:47 AM  13 years agoPost 2
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
no alexander i was checking my heli after a flight and it noticed the elv. and al. servos were moving alot slower than all of the toehr ones..considerably slower...i know it's the servo itself....their cheap adn i knew tehy would were out....


Let me know

Thanks
~Will~

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11-08-2004 03:01 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Spitfire_mk5

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Canada

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they may be worn out ( my TR servos have a habit of doing this) but colins right: servo speed doesn't determine roll rate paddles/flybar mixing ratio's do.

Servos determine how fast you can get to that max roll rate. As for replacements there are JR has the 4131 and 4721's which are nice for anolog if you wnat digital 8311's are nice (but overkill) as for futaba there are the 9252 digital and i believe 9202 analog that are nice. Also at 7.2 there are some KO propo ones that are suposed to be the cats meow.

Just check product lineups for servos; you want faster then .22 and a bit of torque is nice to have -- remeber some are rated on 6v.

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11-08-2004 03:39 AM  13 years agoPost 4
nexussmasher

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uk-london

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I have used the Airtronics(Sanwa) standard servos,and personally would change them when you can. I only used the standard servo when learning hovering, and circuits.

You mentioned after a flight that the servos were slower. Are you sure your receiver pack is fully charged? Do you have a nicad checker?

It could be as simple as that.

also..

If all your servos, are the same, you may find that the ele, and ail servos are slower compared to the others. ie the throttle servo and collective, as these servos are direct links from the servo, while the ail, and ele is moved through bell cranks, swash, levers. Check all the ball links are not too tight on the arms, and are free moving from the servo to the arms all the way up to the head.

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11-08-2004 03:14 PM  13 years agoPost 5
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
ok thanks guys....that's a good point nexussmasher...they aren't direct links...but i still don't like how slow they are....thanks anyway
i think i'll end up gettting futaba's...i'll jsut keep the airtronics as back ups....thanks guys
who has the best prices?

Let me know


Thanks
~Will~

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11-08-2004 07:18 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Rafael23cc

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Junction City, KS

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Save your money, for a 30 you do not need digital servos. If you REALLY want fast response then get faster servos. But digitals are not required.

I have been flying a R30V1 for about 6 years with standard 537 JR servos. This is my cheap try first machine. If it works, then I'll try it on my other more expensive machines.

I echo the other guys here, roll rate is a function of paddle weight and aerodinamics, not servo speed. Servo speed helps on reaction time, and amount of travel in the given reaction time.

I do not know much about the new Airtronics sytems, but the old ones did not plug directly into a Futaba/JR system, you had to switch a pair of cables to make it work. On the other hand I see that you have a futaba gyro/servo cobination, so it might not be a problem.


Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

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11-08-2004 07:44 PM  13 years agoPost 7
PaulH-MA

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Boston, MA

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All of the servo manufacturers now use the same pin-out. The only difference is that Futaba has the little tab sticking out on the top left side of the plug.

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2

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11-08-2004 09:16 PM  13 years agoPost 8
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
yea pual's right...when i got the 9253 all i had to do was shave that part off on the side and then it plugged right in...no issues

Thanks
~Will~

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11-09-2004 12:25 PM  13 years agoPost 9
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
so i really haven't gotten an answer...anyone can tell me their setup...i was thinking not too much higher then the $75 price range....and where can i get them?


Let me know

Thanks
~Will~

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11-09-2004 01:29 PM  13 years agoPost 10
PaulH-MA

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Boston, MA

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My servo setup is considerably more high-end than it needs to be, so you may not want to copy it. I have always liked the centering ability of digital servos, so that is what I tend to use on everything. These are all Futaba part numbers:

S9151 - Collective ($80)
S9252 - Aileron ($65)
S9252 - Elevator ($65)
S9254 - Throttle ($85)
GY401 w/ S9254 - Gyro and Rudder ($189)

I bought all of these through an eBay store that combines shipping on multiple items and sends them USPS 3-day.

http://stores.ebay.com/Hirobonut268

I selected these servos after some careful research. The S9151 has a lot of torque and medium speed, which is perfect for collective. S9252 servos for aileron and elevator control are lower in torque than the S9151, but higher in speed, which gives nice, crisp response to cyclic inputs. The GY401/S9254 is a package deal. the '54 replaces the '53, which was a little weaker and slower.

I put a '54 on the throttle as well. It may seem odd to use a rudder servo on the throttle, but there's a good reason for it: If you read the radio setup information on Raptor Technique, you will find that the throttle response needs to be faster than the collective. This is so the engine has time to spool up when you add collective instead of bogging down. Raptor Technique assumes that a first-time flyer is using identical (inexpensive) ball bearing servos on all channels. The method for making your throttle servo respond faster is to use a longer servo horn and limit the endpoints (EPA/ATV) in the radio. The less distance the servo has to travel, the faster it will be.

My solution to the problem was to use a throttle servo that is much faster than the one on collective. If I really jam the stick in either direction, the throttle response is almost instantaneous, with the collective lagging just a little behind.

All of that being said, if you'd like to use the same servo for all channels, the S9252 is an excellent compromise. At $65, you can't beat the price for a top-notch digital servo.

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2

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11-09-2004 02:07 PM  13 years agoPost 11
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
thanks pual for research info....that realy helps...thanks i found the best price for the 9252 at heliproz.com
they have a deal that if u buy 2 then u get a discount...is this automatically added in when u purchased or do u have to enter a #???


Let me know

Thanks
~Will~

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11-09-2004 02:11 PM  13 years agoPost 12
PaulH-MA

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Boston, MA

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I have never ordered from HeliProz, so I am unable to answer that. I just checked their quantity pricing and saw that it was around $72. You still might want to check out the eBay store that I linked to. $65 plus shipping is hard to beat.

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2

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11-09-2004 02:52 PM  13 years agoPost 13
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
ok pual i thought just some guy was selling them on e-bay and you bought it off him....
is a company or what....does he always have stuff in stock....how well is he on shipping?


Let me know

Thanks
~Will~

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11-09-2004 04:21 PM  13 years agoPost 14
PaulH-MA

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Boston, MA

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Yes, it's a company. As far as I know, he only lists what he has in stock. If you select a particular item, it will tell you what quantity he has, also allowing you to purchase more than one of that item.

The shipping is quite reasonable. If you order multiple items, you'll get a break on the shipping costs. When I ordered from him on a Tuesday night, he got them out Wednesday, and I had them on Friday in the mail (USPS).

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2

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11-09-2004 06:01 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Spitfire_mk5

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Canada

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Heres my setups:

Ali 8311 ($100)
Eliv 8311 ($100)
Collective 8311 ($100)
tail 5000T/8700g (601 9251 is better but thats in my fury) (haven't checke dthe price lately)
throt 537 ($15 at most)
4000mAh pack to power it reg'd


for not digital i used to run
Ali 4131 -- pretty usre these are over 75 bucks a peice though
Eliv 4131
Collective 2721 or 4721 -- around 100 i think
tail 5000T/8700g
throt 537
4000 mAh pack 5.1 reg'd


though the digital setup is far superior in feel -- if you are at te stage you can feel it otherwise you are kind of wasting your $$ because it needs big batteries (like lithiums $$). Can it fly on less -- absolutly.

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11-09-2004 06:54 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Rafael23cc

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Junction City, KS

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My setup:

R30V1 w/TT36
Thro JR 537 Came with the radio
Ail JR 537 Came with the radio
Elev JR 537 Came with the radio
Pitch JR 537 Came with the radio
Tail JR 810G $40

NOW my paddles only weigh 27 grams. they are the stock paddles but drilled and re-covered to make them lighter. the exact same surface area, but much lighter. The heli wants to get pitchy sometimes but the roll rate is what I wanted.
On the other hand why would you spend $300 on servos for the ail, elev and pitch and leave a 537 on the throttle? that does not make sense to me. If you notice the difference on the flying surfaces with those $100 servos, then you HAVE TO notice the lag in power on the throttle. If you do not notice the lag on the power application, then you definitely spent too much money on the other servos.

My opinion...

Rafael

My opinion.

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
Team Heliproz.com

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11-09-2004 09:29 PM  13 years agoPost 17
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
thanks guys i decided just to get the MA white paddles and see what those do before making such an investment in just a 30....thanks for knocking some sense into me...lol


Thanks
~Will~

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11-09-2004 09:50 PM  13 years agoPost 18
Tron

rrApprentice

Morgan Hill, CA

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you could help your roll out by moving the ball on the washout arm assembly to the outer hole. That and your new paddles should keep you on your toes.

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11-09-2004 09:52 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Spitfire_mk5

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Canada

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Well,honestly, because it gave the best response as because its slow it seems to smooths over harsh throttle transitions reducing tail kicks. It overspeeds alot less then any of the fast servos i ever tried. Also the 8311's aren't particularliy fast -- but they have a very snappy feel from their high torque over small deflection -- its not all about servo speed.


So the 537 stays there.


PS: minair paddles are great... the R50 with them can roll faster then a stock fury.

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11-09-2004 09:52 PM  13 years agoPost 20
nojohnny101

rrElite Veteran

10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

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hey
thanks tron that's what i did...i moved the ball out to the outer hole...jsut ordered teh MA Whites and they should be here next weekend....i'll let ya guys know

Thanks
~Will~

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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerOther › raptor 30v2 elv. and al. servos
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