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HomeTurbineAircraftHelicopterTurbine Helicopters › hp5 in Bell 206
11-08-2004 01:02 AM  13 years agoPost 1
joelduval

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Puyallup, Wa (south hill)

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I was wondering if the hp5 with the pht3 will work and be able to carry the load of the large jetranger that vario or martin sollner put out.

2 rotors are better than one

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11-08-2004 01:50 AM  13 years agoPost 2
heliVoY

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NJ

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11-08-2004 01:52 AM  13 years agoPost 3
heliVoY

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NJ

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the pht3 and the hp5 are 2 names for the same set up (the turbine and mechanics are one item, and are not sold separately..


Vario makes a mechanics set for the HP5 for the big Range .. the hp5 mounts upside down and the main mast is used as a drive shaft to another reduction system ..

the hp 5 has plenty enough power for the ranger ..

http://gb.vario-helicopter.biz/shop...e.php?pID=35982

http://gb.vario-helicopter.biz/shop...oducts_id=35821


Wojtek

Wojtek

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11-08-2004 07:04 AM  13 years agoPost 4
heliVoY

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NJ

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for Martin's helis, you can use a PH4T from JetCat with Martin's mechanics.. I sent my Ph4T in to him, and he will make a set of mechanics that wiork with this engine (so its not just jafadowskis on the Martin helis) ..... Hopefully next week my big bell 205 should be shipping ) !

Wojtek

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11-08-2004 10:08 AM  13 years agoPost 5
heliVoY

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NJ

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the ph3t (otherwise known as the HP5) and the ph4t (not listed on the JC USA site) are 2 completely diferent turbine heli drive systems from JetCat ...

Ph4t is more appropriate for Martins helis .... costs little less than the h-5 (ph3t) and has over 1 - 1.5 more horsepower output ... (output at around 16K via clutched shaft)

Wojtek

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11-08-2004 02:11 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Good post Wojtek !!!!
I had forgotten about the PHT4 as it has so little publicity and no one else ever mentions it, It may just be the beast I need for a new project I have in mind. Did you get yours from Bob?

Keep us updated on the mechanics and model when you get it from Martin, will be very interested to hear how it performs.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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11-08-2004 06:31 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Ah the old Navier-Stokes three dimensional equations, yes. I use them to balance my check book

Some of your post doesn't make sense.
"Push a LE to 95K and you will get 5kw. Push the turbine to 105k and the output will be similar" Can you explain that a bit better please?

If you push a PHT4 to 105k you say it wont last. What will happen to it?

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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11-09-2004 02:21 AM  13 years agoPost 8
heliVoY

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NJ

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gregory, this is the mechanics needed to use the HP5 in the big jet ranger :

this is the hp5


this is the pht4

and it would mount like this , as is similar in the set of mechanics i am getting made by Martin for the big 205 i have on order .,,


so yes Gregory, you were "missing something"

the pht4 is a diferent turbine internally from the hp5, it produces more power, at and consumes less fuel.

by the way, yes, any turbine wiull produce more power if you set the ECU to pump more fuel, which will cause higher RPMs, but it might blow up on you when spun too fast ... maintaining the propper temperatures and presures in the right portions of the engine is crutial to safe, reliable and efective operation...... saying the PHT4 is like the hp5 is like saying that the HP5 is like any P80 ...


Peter,

I have the first PHt4 that came in to the US, i bought it over 3 - 4 months ago (for once i can say i had somehting before you got your hands on it ) I sent the PHT4 to Martin in Austria to set up his mechanics to work with it, as he had only been able to use the Jafadowsky turbines before. I hope to get the 205 with the mechanics end of the month .. I run the whole main rotor asembly on a bench even before the heli is done, and will report on the results as well as provide video ... im really looking forward to this ....

what have you been working on lately ? i think i saw some pics of a Jayhawk somewhere you had ..... i have been busy on my jets, and its time to get back into the helis .....


here is a F-15 whish i hope will fly soon ... (a friend of mine is doing the paint job .. i cant even paint in 1 color )

Wojtek

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11-09-2004 02:30 AM  13 years agoPost 9
heliVoY

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NJ

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peter, here is a better shot of the PHT4 .... its realy "neat" piece of machinery .. the starter motor actually engages by its own torque swinging it onto the drive wheel ... i can wait to spin up the big 3m rotors to a whopping 600rpm with this baby


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11-09-2004 04:27 AM  13 years agoPost 10
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Gregory
Push it to 105K and the output will be as high as the JC claims of the PHT4 (PHT3) if not higher. You don't understand that?

I understand that. Its not quite what you wrote and I wasn't sure to which turbine you referred.

You wrote Push a LE to 95K and you will get 5kw. Push the turbine to 105k and the output will be similar but at the end of the day your turbine will not last. So now I assume you mean the PHT4 will give the same power at 105k as the LE does at 95k.

As these turbines were originally designed for aircraft and to run at 120k or maybe even more, whats the problem with running them at 105k. The PHT4 certainly seems to have a more substantial transmission on it than the PHT3 so if its designed to run at 105k why wont it last?

Your comments infer a level of disagreement between yourself and Marcus and a general mistrust of the Jetcat product? Am I reading that right?

I originally had PHT3's #'s 13 and 14 and have owned several since, now I am just fitting #448 into another scale heli. I rarely hear of problems with them and so I guess they must have gotten this particular turbine about right.

Wojtek

That certainly looks a substantial piece of equipment. I saw pictures of it when you first got it and thought it looked good. That is the mainshaft to end all mainshafts isn't it? Does it go through the exhaust or is that an optical illusion?

The Jayhawk came and went. It is France now with its new owner. I dont seem to be able to keep a heli for very long before someone wants to buy it. Right now I am building another EC135 turbine like my English one. I liked it so much, I decided to make another one for the US

That airplane of yours certainly has one hell of a fine paint job on it. I really admire folks who can paint like that, their imagination to be able to see the finished product in their minds eye always amazes me. I just struggle to get a paint job to look like a full size and be done with it

I am also working on an Alouette 3 which is using a Baumann fuselage and heavily modified Maxi Joker mechanics. It is a much longer term project and will take a year or so to complete. No rush now I have retired from the competition scene

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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11-09-2004 05:15 AM  13 years agoPost 11
heliVoY

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NJ

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eter,

yes, that main shaft goes through the pipe, ... i guess Vario really though there was a big market for selling the hp5 into their big jet rangers ... Im glad i did not get the Vario Jet ranger ,,, i just dont like any of the mechanics that vario has available for it ... I can't wait to have my ec-135 flying .. currently Alan (optikaman) is doing the build on it for me ... ( im swamped with projects till a year from now .. )

I have to get back into helis more seriously again .... there are too many toys to play with and not ehough time

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11-09-2004 01:23 PM  13 years agoPost 12
Michael Stenger

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50 mil. s. of Colone

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Hello,

here some mor pictures from my Big Jet Ranger VARIO with the Turbine PHT-3 !!

look under " Projekte"

.and under " Fotobank " > Jet Power 2004

Greeings,

Michael

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11-09-2004 05:45 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Gregory
I am quite familiar with the difference between a mass flow turbine and a thrust turbine. I wondered if you knew something that I didn't about the PHT4. and running it at 105K. Obviously you don't and are just blowing hot air again.

Being civil to you just doesn't work does it?

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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11-10-2004 11:20 AM  13 years agoPost 14
ComancheDriver

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Bothell, WA USA

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What about the Pahl turbine?

I read somewhere that is Pahl coming out with a gas-less turbine called the GPH-76. Supposely will make about 10 HP, that's more than the PH3T, the PH4 or Jak's PJ-W-R.

Just my 5-cents.......

Helicopters have expiration dates. It just not printed anywhere on them.

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11-15-2004 02:02 AM  13 years agoPost 15
heliVoY

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NJ

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Gregory, you are quite a pompas jack ass. For your info, i have 3 pht3s and a pht4, 2 P120s , a P80, and a AT400 from AMT. i know what im talking about, you dont, Peter whales knows whta he is talking about also, so how about giving those who KNOW a little respect .. the more you talk, the more you are veryfying that you "are missing something"


Wojtek

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11-15-2004 12:28 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Wojtek
How much bigger than the PHT3 is the PHT4 ? From the photo, it looks as if the outside is about 1" greater in diameter.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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