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11-07-2004 08:41 PM  13 years agoPost 1
PeterP

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Johannesburg, South Africa

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Hi all

I just managed to pull off my first intentional, succesful auto's this weekend. I was amazed that it was not the stressed out move I thought but rather a steady controlled decent (OK I did have an instructor buddy boxing me for the first ones - and it was a 90 size heli with plenty blade reserve)

Anyone have any thoughts on auto's - what makes them better - nose up or down ; lots of negative to get a good decent rate and a big flare at the bottom; flare strongly with fore/ aft pitch before adding pitch; what considerations for 50 size vs 90 size?

Also finally - why does it feel like such a great acheivement when you get it right.

Thanks
PeterP

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11-07-2004 10:07 PM  13 years agoPost 2
Bobby Watts

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Orlando, FL

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In order to milk it the most and get everything out you can, push both sticks forward and keep the nose down. Only do this alittle bit in order to keep your forward heading. It may seem awkward and you will want to pull back on the cyclic, but give it a try... it works alot better.

Bob

www.bobbywatts.com

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11-07-2004 10:17 PM  13 years agoPost 3
tailrotordave

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Burbank, Ca

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I found also that when you are starting out, a bunch of negative is not necessary. A nice descent that is not too fast will require less action from you at the bottom. Bring it down at an evenly slow pace and flare and land at the bottom. A bit of wind helps. I've gone up to where you can barely see the heli and put in full negative (-10) and the blades don't spin up any more than if I only put in about -5 degrees.
After you've done a bunch and are comfortable, start to experiment. But for now, I would try to keep doing them the same way--same height, same descent rate, same landing spot, etc. Less variables mean less mental fatigue. They ARE satisfying............

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11-07-2004 10:57 PM  13 years agoPost 4
B.Hofferth

rrApprentice

walkerton in.

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not trying to hijack the thread but you just answered a question that i had, tailrotordave. i did also notice that from an extremely high alt. using 8-9 deg. v/s approximately 3-5deg. for a decent with a moderate forward speed doesent spool up the blades any more than the latter. i was always told to use as much negative as possible no matter what if you can, but on my machines venture 30&50 with nhp blades it doesn't matter they like 3-5approx.

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11-07-2004 11:21 PM  13 years agoPost 5
lasnubes

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Tampa, FL

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I have been practicing these lately, and the heli guru at our field recommends setting up the hold curve with about -6 degrees on the bottom, and everything you can get on top. That way, you can bottom the stick initially, without having to worry about fine tuning the initial descent, and then feed in a bit to maintain an appropriate sink rate. Juggling sink rate with ground spped allows for a spot landing. Inertia stored is not infinite, and neither is forward velocity. I agree that a well set up descent is the key, but then, every good landing is the result of a stabilized approach.

I want to practice from all altitudes and attitudes, as well as positions so that a flame-out is a non-event. Yes, it is very satisfying when done right. I read somewhere, that one whould attempt to make every landing an auto- I don't know if I'll ever get there, but I do want to try!

Have Fun!

Carl

No more nitro!

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11-08-2004 12:25 AM  13 years agoPost 6
rcheliflyer

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calif., usa

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Yes, it is very satisfying when done right. I read somewhere, that one whould attempt to make every landing an auto- I don't know if I'll ever get there, but I do want to try!
I never thought I'd get there with the auto's at first, but after watching Todd B do many cool autos on the spot while at F3d, and after a lot of practice I make it a point to start shooting autos of varying types after my timer goes off.
Too much of anything can mess up an auto as far as nose up / down,
pitch neg / pos, decent rate, wind ,flare etc.
I like to go by feel and sight / sound / heli response, listen and watch
the blades speed, you can tell if it's speeding up or getting close to stopping every heli has it's own sweet spot .
Running the same pitch in all modes works great too, and will help
later when you start doing aerobatic auto's,
make sure your blades are tight and bump up the hold throttle a bit when doing the riskier autos then lower it after you get the hang of it.

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11-08-2004 02:15 AM  13 years agoPost 7
helibird

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St. George, UT

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I've thought about beginning trying these but I'm a little nervous, can you practice from altitude and abort (flip the hold switch off)? I've seen lots of autos but I've yet to see anyone abort from one.

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11-08-2004 02:44 AM  13 years agoPost 8
pilot74

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Helibird. ive aborted a few by turning off hold with no dramas,just have to be careful i guess that the headspeed is not too low or too close to the ground. but in practising the approaches i found it helpful. some guy told me its bad for the heli to do repeatedly but dunno if thats correct.

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11-08-2004 03:29 AM  13 years agoPost 9
gwallace1

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Susanville, CA

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Just set your normal mode and throttle hold pitch settings the same.....from -5 or -6 to +9 or +10. Start in normal mode at a good altitude and orientation ( where you want to start your auto). Leave it in normal and bring the stick down to the bottom. Keep the heli as level as you can. You are not trying and / or learning to fly the auto in in the beginning, just getting a feel of the rate and attitude during the descent. Try and get a good feel of how and where your heli will come down. As the heli nears the ground, get a fell of how the descent is slowed by the flare, while advancing the throttle / collective, and fly it away. Shoot a bunch of these until you feel comfortable. I did a bunch, until I was pretty much geting where I wanted to be, then as I got close, and it "felt good", I hit the switch and did a nice sliding auto. BTW sliding autos are a very simple way to start. As I did more and more, I started just hitting the switch....sometimes I still abort flip it back and fly away. Oh well practice makes perfect.

PS: Thanks to Mike Cingari for the help on shooting autos.

Greg

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11-08-2004 03:56 AM  13 years agoPost 10
rcheliflyer

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calif., usa

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Helibird,
I've thought about beginning trying these but I'm a little nervous, can you practice from altitude and abort (flip the hold switch off)? I've seen lots of autos but I've yet to see anyone abort from one.
Practice the decent and approach in Normal mode, power out lower
and lower till you get a good feel for it before using the hold sw., do a lot
of low alt hovering autos too, it will all come together.
There's a point when you get too low and slo and it's better to ride it out
and land it, rather than risk a sudden torque and possible worse situation.
You can abort at safe altitudes and headspeeds with no problem, just try not to jam the collective / throttle too hard.
If I get in trouble I usually ride the stick a little after flipping the hold sw
back and let the head respool a bit, then climb out.
Since I usually have my GV1 on there is a slight delay that I anticipate, also if it's in Idle up it can have a sudden power increase when flipping the hold off, possible rabbit earing the main blades and or causing the tail to kick over .

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11-08-2004 04:24 AM  13 years agoPost 11
tailrotordave

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Burbank, Ca

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also if it's in Idle up it can have a sudden power increase when flipping the hold off, possible rabbit earing the main blades and or causing the tail to kick over .
That's another thing, I run all my curves the same in every mode (-10,0+10) so that no matter what mode I am in, the auto will still feel the same. I do, however, switch to normal mode at the start of my auto session. That way, if I do have to switch out of one, my throttle setting won't be as high as in Idle Up to (hopefully) avoid the tail kick or the blades folding....

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11-08-2004 05:20 AM  13 years agoPost 12
classic

rrElite Veteran

All over the place!

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Actually, it doesn't hurt to add a few extra positive degrees just on the auto mode. Just be careful not to to give it full stick when slowing it down, it will give you more energy at the bottom.
And tailrotordave is right about the decent speed, we used a headspeed gauge and it made no diferance how fast you droped, the heads only speed up so much, that was it, infact, coming down fast just uses more energy when you slow it down.

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11-08-2004 09:38 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Paul Woodcock

rrElite Veteran

Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi Peter

Well done. Autos are lots of fun. I find that lots of negative can be scary because it comes down too fast...I setup just a bit more than needed and then i don't take the stick all the way down, unless I need to to hit the spot.

Nose up will bleed a high forward speed. Nose down gets down fast and builds forward speed.

I find the R50 easier to auto, because it costs less.....The R50 is fine if the wind is right, a very hot calm day is hard because you are already sweating and with the calm wind conditions you battle to slow the forward speed. you need to flare harder or from higher and then blade speed startes to go...and you sweat more...In the strong wind it has less penitration into the wind than your Milli will have, but is easy to touch down though.

Go and practice lots and try to do the same each time, ie pitch and nose possition. Try from different hights and forward speeds and watch the effect...If it is not right ABORT, don't try land of a lousy approach...

Wed at NERF ?

Paul

PS if you are battling with the spot, go for a big patch of grass (benoni) or the runway (nerf). dont land in the rough at nerf it is too easy to tip over or take out the tail blades...


Paul

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11-08-2004 10:50 AM  13 years agoPost 14
daz59

rrApprentice

Tokoroa, New Zealand

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The less negative pitch you have the faster the blades will spinn when you auto (to a certain point that is)

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