RunRyder RC
 4  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1082 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › TT36 problems
11-07-2004 01:57 AM  13 years agoPost 1
joserpaq

rrNovice

Miami

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I just got a thunder tiger TT36 on a raptor from someone on the clasifieds and put about 4 hours into it today with no luck. The motor starts fine but as I throttle up to about 50% it cuts out. I checked the hose, the tank, and the fuel. I set the inner needle to 1 turn and the main needle to two turns and tried every other combination but couldn't get it to work. I then left the golw plug starter on the heli and it ran great but it turns off when I take off the igniter. I also tried 3 different glow plugs. Could it be that the glow plug is not hot enough for the motor? or does anyone have any ideas?

TIA

Jose

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 02:08 AM  13 years agoPost 2
FlyTime

rrNovice

Webster, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Richen it up
1 and two turns out is too lean. start at 3 turns each and go from there.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 02:09 AM  13 years agoPost 3
xv-townboy

rrApprentice

Abbotsford.bc. western canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

get an OS6B carb ..

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 03:12 AM  13 years agoPost 4
kaptkaos

rrKey Veteran

Miami FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

He fails to mention that during that 4 hour period his buddy let him run 2-3 tanks with his awesome properly tuned Raptor\OS!!!!

What are friends for!

If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 05:49 AM  13 years agoPost 5
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Jose,
What you have run into is the well known rich spot at around 1/3 throttle that the TT36s are famous for.

What you have to do is lean out the low speed needle slightly. You wont be able to get rid of the rich spot until the motor is well broken in.

Lean the low needle until you can get it past the rich spot. Then it should run fine. As the motor becomes better broken in you can run the low needle leaner. Dont try to lean it out too much too soon. The motor will overheat. Turn the needle in small increments. 1/8 turn is a LOT.

Rest assured that once broken in and with the needles set right the TT36 runs great with gobs of power. I have two of them.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 06:31 AM  13 years agoPost 6
joserpaq

rrNovice

Miami

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

question
thanks Mike can you give me some general directions on where to start from on the low and high needles. I tried so many different things that it's all out of wack now. ie. 2 turns. Also is the low speed needle the larger on the fuel intake or the one inside the throttle?

I don't know how many hours the motor has on it since I bought it on the chopper but it looks pretty new.

TIA

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 08:34 AM  13 years agoPost 7
Raptor_in_Swede

rrApprentice

Stockholm /Sweden

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The main ("high") needle should normally be 2,5 turns open.
The low-end needle (inside the throttle) can have two different values depending av engine/carb generation.
The first generation had 0,5-0,7 turn open and the last generation had 2,0-2,5 turns open.
The low-end needle "turns open" should be measured with the throttle fully closed to mechanical limits, disconnect the servo link.
Without knowing the carb generation you could check low-end needle basic setting with the "pinch" test:
-Run the engine and let it be warm.
-Let the engine then run in idle for some seconds
-Pinch the fuel tube just before the carb inlet.
-If it takes more than 7 seconds before engine revs up the low-end needle is too rich.
-If it takes 4-5 seconds before engine revs up the low-end needle is OK.
-If it takes less than seconds before engine revs up the low-end needle is too lean.

1/3 throttle rich spot requires that you "pump" the engine up to hover revs. When you raise the throttle stick and the engine goes into the rich "zone" and drops in revs, reduce the throttle and wait until engine increase revs, then increase throttle again.
With careful "pumping" the engine will increase in revs for every repetition until you are through the rich zone.
Then it will run up to hover revs.
TT36 needs a very good glow plug (OS #8, Enya 3) to be able to "burn through" the 1/3 rich spot.

Raptor 30V1/TT39H/Hatori#415/GY401_9253
Hirobo GPH GT/TT50H/Hatori #544/GY401_9254
RD8000

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 02:55 PM  13 years agoPost 8
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Also is the low speed needle the larger on the fuel intake or the one inside the throttle?
The low speed (idle) needle is the small one inside the throttle arm.

Like Swede said start with about 2 - 2.5 turns out. This is real close except for very early TT36s. Do the pinch test at idle to get you in the ballpark then tweak the idle needle in small increments to get you through the rich spot.

Remember that the low speed needle is the major controlling factor up to about 60% throttle. So its the main one you need to set for hovering. Do full throttle climbouts if you can to set the high speed needle. The two needles interact so it will take some tweaking back and forth to get it just right.

The TT36s are good motors but they require some effort to get the needles right. Mastering one of these will make you an expert.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 04:42 PM  13 years agoPost 9
kaptkaos

rrKey Veteran

Miami FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well I think thats a lot of good advice. This engine definitely looks broken in.

We need to do the pinch test, first
Hover around and set the low speed
Then rev through it and do climbouts to set the high.
The problem is we dont want it to cut on the climb and be faced with an auto, which we have never done before!!!


I think the 1/3 rich spot makes sense according to what happened to us yesterday and if we get the pinch test done, we will be fine.
THen as long as it makes decent power on top, and blows some smoke it will be fine for regular sport flying?

Would an OS carb make all of his troubles go away?

If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 05:34 PM  13 years agoPost 10
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The problem is we dont want it to cut on the climb and be faced with an auto, which we have never done before!!!
Definitely a problem. Start easy. Hover down low
and goose the throttle. You will be able to tell if it bogs down (too rich) or revs up (too lean). As you get more confident keep the throttle open longer.

Work on autos! They can save your butt.
THen as long as it makes decent power on top, and blows some smoke it will be fine for regular sport flying?
Yup...
Would an OS carb make all of his troubles go away?
SOME OS carbs will fit the TT36 and will change the characteristics of the motor. If you have one on hand try it. But dont go out and buy one. The TT carb is fine. Just a bit finicky.

And as mentioned earlier be sure to use a good plug. OS8 or Enya 3 with the Enya being a bit better. The OS A3 will not work. If you have trouble getting a good reliable idle change the plug.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 06:36 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Raptor_in_Swede

rrApprentice

Stockholm /Sweden

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

kaptkaos
The 1/3 throttle problem is just a start-up problem.
When the engine reach working revs and working temp, you will not have any problem.
I have always tried to run the low-end needle on the rich side on both TT36 and TT39 to avoid overrevving at fast descents.

Raptor 30V1/TT39H/Hatori#415/GY401_9253
Hirobo GPH GT/TT50H/Hatori #544/GY401_9254
RD8000

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 10:52 PM  13 years agoPost 12
Greg Faust

rrApprentice

Northern VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

does anyone know how to tell the diffrerence between the early TT36s and the later ones? I seem to have to different low speed needles for mine and I'm not sure which to use. Seems to run OK with the pointy one (the other has a flatter point) and the settings are about 6 1/2 turns out on the low and 1 1/4 turns out on the high using the stock TT muffler and CP 30 fuel. The engine runs great but it will always flame out if it idles during flight, which is a pain in the ass. and if I tune it to idle then it runs lean during hover.

<<<Lithium Field Rep>>>

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 10:58 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Greg Faust

rrApprentice

Northern VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I just read my last post and I'd like to clarify a little more. I don't have a 3 needle carb. I have the regulary TT carb. I can only use one low speed needle or the other. I.E. I have to completely remove the low speed needle and then install the other to switch.

<<<Lithium Field Rep>>>

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 11:01 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Greg Faust

rrApprentice

Northern VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I just read my last post and I'd like to clarify a little more. I don't have a 3 needle carb. I have the regulary TT carb. I can only use one low speed needle or the other. I.E. I have to completely remove the low speed needle and then install the other to switch. Also, before me, this engine only had 7 flights on it. But if the engine was tuned anything like the heli that it came in was setup, then it's probably toast. But the compression is good and it's been hovering and flying OK, just that flameout problem at less than 1/4 throttle once it's at operating temp.

<<<Lithium Field Rep>>>

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 11:14 PM  13 years agoPost 15
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

does anyone know how to tell the diffrerence between the early TT36s and the later ones?
Well...they are two versions of the TT36 motor and at least two different carbs with several iterations of different idle needles.

The outside of the crankcase of the old TT36 is smooth in the area just behind the rear bearing.
On the newer version there is webbing running across this space.

On the carbs look for 3 lines molded into the front of the carb body. Thats a newer carb. The older version is smooth.

Ive seen old version TT36s with newer version carbs.
The engine runs great but it will always flame out if it idles during flight,
You probably have the idle mixture a bit too rich. And when you lean it out a bit that problem goes away but then it overheats. Right?

Thats completely normal (but aggravating) with the TT36s. Its overheating because its not broken in yet. Keep the needles rich and just keep running fuel through it. You will reach a point where you can start to lean that idle needle a bit without overheating. It will take AT LEAST one gallon of fuel. Mine wasnt really good until two gallons.

Remember to tweak that needle in SMALL increments. Its easy to go right past the sweet spot.

You might also try an Enya #3 plug. It sometimes helps in tough cases.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 11:20 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Greg Faust

rrApprentice

Northern VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm thinking about switching to the needle with the flatter tip to hopefully lean the idle a little without leaning the mid range.... any thoughts?

<<<Lithium Field Rep>>>

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-07-2004 11:23 PM  13 years agoPost 17
Greg Faust

rrApprentice

Northern VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

.....I'll just go ahead and try it and let ya'll know how it goes. This TT36 is like a lesson in engine tuning. My YS 91s and OS 91s run almost like they're fuel injected compared to this thing. I tried the TT plug that comes with the TT36 which was a total waste of time, then before trying the OS I tried a Fox R/C Long with Idle bar plug hoping that it would hold more heat at idle and not flame out. Seems to have been a step in the right direction, I'll let you guys know how it goes with the flat needle.

<<<Lithium Field Rep>>>

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-08-2004 12:22 AM  13 years agoPost 18
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

'm thinking about switching to the needle with the flatter tip to hopefully lean the idle a little without leaning the mid range.... any thoughts?
It should help. Some guys are doing just that to the TT39 and TT50 carbs and it seems to help.
I never made the mod to my TT50 though . It never seemed to need it.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-09-2004 12:03 AM  13 years agoPost 19
joserpaq

rrNovice

Miami

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

some progress
Ok I finally got it going to the point where I could hover and get it flying around pretty good but the motor got very hot. I can't tell you exactly how many turns I have on the low and hight needle becuase I just played with it until it ran. Should I richen up the high end needle since it is overheating or the low end needle?

Thanks

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-09-2004 01:07 AM  13 years agoPost 20
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Should I richen up the high end needle since it is overheating or the low end needle?
If its overheating while hovering that will be mostly
controlled by the low speed needle. Try richening the idle needle about 1/8th turn. I would also richen the high speed needle a couple of clicks.

If your motor isnt fully broken in it will have a tendency to overheat. Its better to err on the side of too rich.

Stick with it. Once you master the tuning on a TT36 other motors will seem easy.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1082 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › TT36 problems
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Friday, June 22 - 5:04 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online