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Zoom › CP-20L - 3600 vs. Himax 2025-4200?
11-05-2004 04:06 PM  13 years agoPost 1
CRAZYKEV

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Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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Chili Pepper CP-20L - 3600kv 200w
Himax 2025 - 4200kv or Park400 (same motor as far as I am concerned) 175w


Has anyone tried these two motors in thier heli? I have the Park400 and want to upgrade to a different motor and the CP-20L looks as if it would be a good choice.

Thanks Guys!

Kev

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11-06-2004 02:09 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Havoc

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Ky.

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I heard the vendors hype it up (what they are supposed to do) and decided to try it. I wanted it by this weekend since weather is going down hill fast yet this weekend is looking good. So I had it sent next day. I asked for the 2mm shaft. They said no prob. I got the motor today and of course it has a 2.3 mm shaft. I am not going to blast the shop because I know everyone screws up but I get so tired of this stuff. It always happens when I pay the extra for shipping. I get the wrong thing very fast . I am just annoyed right now, but actually the guy at the hobby shop was very knowledgeable and helpful and I am sure he will get this sorted out.

So maybe I'll know next week. I need to send this back and have another one sent and I seriously doubt I'll spend much on shipping.

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11-06-2004 04:17 AM  13 years agoPost 3
tabbytabb

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seattle

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I believe a while back Aaronredbaron was using a CP 20 and had great things to say about it!

I think he was running around a 1500Mah pack to supply the current needed.

Maybe search for his post or shoot him a PM, he is a nice guy and a knowledgable micro pilot.

Tabb

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11-07-2004 05:22 AM  13 years agoPost 4
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Aaron has a 9.54 MB Video up and running with the Chili Pepper 3600 KV with Apogee 1660 mAh, and a Phoenix 25. That thing has a ton of power. The video is here:

http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS.Zoom.Videios.php

.......Dennis

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11-07-2004 07:30 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Havoc

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Ky.

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I got some of the Apogee batteries but have not got them ready yet. I did try a pack and I did notice a difference over the kokam packs I have. Didn't know you had the CP motors. I got the Chili pepper 4200. I am new to electrics but if the numbers work like glow shouldn't it kick more ass than the 3600? When dealing with electrics I only understand percentages of ass kicked (Ak%) and ass kicked per volt (Ak/V). I am using a 4200 himax now and seem to have a low Ak%. I thought the 4200 cpL was the right choice. I ordered like 90 2.3mm pinions (both 8 and 9 tooth) so I wouldn't need to fiddle with sending the CP motor back.

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11-07-2004 02:16 PM  13 years agoPost 6
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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CRAZYKEV,

I don't know about the CP yet, HAVOC and I fly together so I'm waiting to see his results before I order one.

My main reason for was replying was in reference to: "Himax 2025 - 4200kv or Park400 (same motor as far as I am concerned) 175w"

Kind of strange, they look exactly the same except for can color. I figured that they were each made by the same company, colored different and sold under different labels. If you look at the spec sheet, everything is the same except for max amp draw. The PARK 400 draws more amps. Another club member stated he was getting more out of his P400 than Himax, so I tried the P400 with the same results.

HAVOC currently has the Himax 42Kv and it won't climb like my P400 (our helis are set up exactly the same). There must be something different. It would have to be the windings? I figure it to be the number of windings and wire gauge in them..

All back to equal, if the CP is what it claims to be, it will be a hot preformer.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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11-15-2004 06:01 PM  13 years agoPost 7
CRAZYKEV

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Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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I am bumping this back up to see if you have anymore updates Havoc or if anyone else has some feed back. I am bouncing between the CP-20L 3600 and 4200 models. The CP-20L 4200 is rated at 225W and I would guess should make more power than 3600. I would be runnin' 8t pinion with 4200 and 9t with 3600.

I just don't know if I am making correct decision by getting the 4200.

Thanks guys!
Kev

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11-15-2004 06:49 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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The Himax 2025 and the Chili Pepper is not manufactured by the same folks. The Chili Pepper is manufactured in the USA by BMI (Brushless Motors Inc). And the Himax is manufactured in in one of the Asian countries for Maxx Products.

Not knocking the Himax Brushless, of course. But I don't think the Himax can stack up to the power curve that the Chili Pepper can put out. You get what you pay for. There will be more reports on these comparisons as they are moved in the marketplace.

A fair comparison would be by someone who has flown both.

........Dennis

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11-15-2004 07:00 PM  13 years agoPost 9
CRAZYKEV

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Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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I was comparing the CP-20L 3600 vs. CP-20L 4200 now. Sorry for the confusion! I have narrowed it down to a CP-20L, but don't know which kv would be better? I currently am running Park400 (which is a great motor and I am using in my second "beater" Shogun I am building) and at 4200kv thought that CP-20L at 4200kv with 8t pinion would be the way to go! My Park400 boggs a bit and am hoping the CP-20L will not!

Thanks,
Kev

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11-15-2004 11:09 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Havoc

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Ky.

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The road was long but I finally got the CP20L 4200 installed with a 8 tooth pinion and flew it last weekend. I also used the Apogee batteries, which themselves provide a boost over the Kokams I was using. I can now climb out without bogging but it was not as ballistic as I thought it would be. I think the problem might be with my governor mode and I need to play with that. I ended up at 85 across the pitch curve using High gov mode. I tried 80-90. I think I will go back to using the curve. But I can do rolling circles without being tediously careful with the collective. With the Himax, it would easily loose altitude. But I just called it a Rolling Spiral . I am having tail troubles in that it kicks out in certain stunts (with both motors). I tried a funnel and you get one around and the tail goes screwy. Same with back flips. It will piro flip with left rudder. I am using a 401 now instead of the 560 but I think I will go back to the 560. I just wanted to try both but I think I need the options the 560 has. I'd like programming suggestions on that. Anyway after a five minute flight of trying to treat it like a glow heli the motor was 120 degrees. The highest temp I ever saw was 160. The max temp of the open air was 51 degrees at the field. I don't remember where my pitch ended up but I think I am around -9/9. -7/7 sucks with both motors. At least now I am getting to the point where I am happy. Once the tail is locked and I get the curve or governor set I think it will be ok. Then it will probably hit the ground and burst into flames. I had a friend try to video it but he isn't very good at it and it is a blur if it is in the frame at all. Maybe I can try again next weekend. I figure if my review is worth anything you need to be able to see what it is doing or not doing. I'll take any performance suggestions also. I don't care about duration much, just 3D.

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11-16-2004 12:31 PM  13 years agoPost 11
CRAZYKEV

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Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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Thanks Havoc!

Can you tell if the CP-20L was pulling too many amps from your battery? I am just wondering if it overheats the battery.

Thanks,
kev

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11-16-2004 11:29 PM  13 years agoPost 12
Havoc

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Ky.

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I didn't even try it with my kokams. I used the Apogee packs. The specs are here: http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS...660.Li.Poly.php

The only time a pack got warm was when I ran it down enough that the motor quit when I lost track of time.

I see where Deetee sells the CP but I only see the 3600. The climbout on their video looks a little better than mine. But I don't know their setup. I do think my gov setup is not ideal and that might make the difference. So the CP20L-4200 seems to easily beat my Himax 4200. I don't know about the CP at 3600 vs 4200. I am not an electric heli expert in any way. I just see bigger numbers and think they must be better but that doesn't always work. I call the experts and they tell me to spend more money.

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11-16-2004 11:39 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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We will be getting a 4200 CP 20L to do some comparisons between that and the 3600. It will take some time.

I can't give any tech reasons why, But I think the 3600 is going to stand out. We will try to keep everyone updated as best we can.

.......Dennis

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11-17-2004 12:31 PM  13 years agoPost 14
CRAZYKEV

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Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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Excellent Dennis and thank you man!

I get what you say about the 4200 not having enough torque, but am stilll interested in seeing which one is better.

Kevin

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11-17-2004 01:03 PM  13 years agoPost 15
zoom

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Galveston, Texas

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Generally, the more amps means more power, but there are factors involved:
When comparing motors, here is a neat equation:

watts(power) = amps X voltage

15 amps X 12v (3s pack voltage) = 180 watts

Now multiply the max wattage by the percent efficiency and you get a closer or true wattage since now you have included the amount of loss.
If this same motor has 80% efficiency then multiply 180 X .8 = 144w (this is the true wattage of an 80% efficient motor.)

I hear the CP motors are extremely efficient.

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11-17-2004 08:55 PM  13 years agoPost 16
CRAZYKEV

rrVeteran

Cincinnati,Oh - U.S.A.

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I saw a video of CP-20L 3600 on 4S and it was ballistic man! I don't know how to post a vid, but this puppy had a climb rate that looked like a 90 sized nitro! It was on rcgroups.

I need to order one!

Kev

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11-17-2004 11:35 PM  13 years agoPost 17
Havoc

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Ky.

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I would certainly hate to be done spending money on this thing

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11-18-2004 10:54 PM  13 years agoPost 18
Havoc

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Ky.

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Ok today I had the 9tooth installed on the CP20L-4200. This ran really well for a little bit. I dropped the throttle to 70 across. The climbout was great. It did a nice rolling circle and inverted climbs. I checked the temp and the motor was 136F. The batteries where around 60F. My timer was set for five minutes and with about a two minutes left I did some inverted climbouts, another rolling circle, and then tried a tighter funnel. As it came back around full circle the motor died as if the battery took a dump. The motor temp was still around 136F but the battery temp was now 132F.

Two things might cause the problem.

One is that this is the same pack I ran too long last weekend and the motor quit but that was well over five minutes. Don't know if I did anything to the pack by doing that.

The other is that my batteries might not like this setup.

I didn't try it with my other pack because I got a little lucky with that landing and wanted to quit while I was ahead and I also didn't want to risk smoking my other pack. I figure I'd get opinions here first.

My battery is the Apogee 1660.

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11-18-2004 11:34 PM  13 years agoPost 19
rerazor

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Mich.

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What esc?? Maybe you have a low volt cutoff set and under load you are hitting it.

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11-18-2004 11:49 PM  13 years agoPost 20
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

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Rerazor, that is exactly what happened. Agopee's voltage does not hold up well under load. With the 9v cutoff, if using 3s pack, under load Apogee's drop their voltage pretty quickly. That is what trigger the cutoff. One thing you can try is lowering the cutoff to 7.2v and just use your timer. This will help during those voltage dips while doing the demanding moves, but don't get too happy and forget that your cutoff was lowered

TP's hold their voltage better under load.

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