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11-04-2004 04:45 AM  13 years agoPost 61
rroback

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Irvine (UCI), Ca

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oh and, what about the values about relationships other then children? to many, a partner is not someone you make babies with, but cherish, physically, emotionally mentally. You guys act as if allowing homosexual marriages is saying come here little boy and touch this guy, but it is not. It is simply saying that if you love someone ( seemingly the reason of marriage) then you should be allowed to marry them. I will raise my children ( hopefully a long way away, as I'm 18) to respect everyone, if they are gay, I'll support them, if they are straight, fine. I will not try and push their sexuality, as it seems, when parents do try and push issues, they children become even further messed up. let kids have choices themselves, becuase chances are, if you drive them crazy with your heterosexual junk, they'll say that sucks, and turn gay. let there own nature take its course.

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.

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11-04-2004 04:50 AM  13 years agoPost 62
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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I have a brain and my brain tells me that logically being homosexual is not normal.

I was going to say that square pegs don't go in round holes butt that just don't quite fit this theme

All puns intended

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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11-04-2004 04:53 AM  13 years agoPost 63
hoverman

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Temecula,California

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I always find this topic interesting and disturbing so heres my 2 cents:

Gays claim it to be genetic, ie they're born that way,well if that is the case then the "gay" community would surly die out since they can not reproduce naturaly. Since they are not dieing out then I conclude its not genetic

So It seems more logical that it is a choice in my opinion. A choice as such to me is a perverison in choosing to be gay.

If its not a choice then why is it that there is always a masculine and femine role that is played????

Genetics dictate that in a gay couple both would generate and follow the same chacteristics..

Now if you want to choose to put your "stick" in someone else's backyard well thats your business,BUT if you are going to be crying,whining,complaining...etc that its normal and that I should accept it well I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!! COLON COWBOY!!!!

I do not have to accept nor tolerate your CHOICE!! And I do not have to allow MY children to be read books at school about SUSIES 2 DADDIES and there is nothing that you will ever be able to say to convince me otherwise.

Gays will always promote thier false lifestyle as "normal" to give themselves the false idelogy of its okay to be gay.

eveyone have a nice day

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11-04-2004 04:58 AM  13 years agoPost 64
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Who said that being gay was not on the decline? The only thing that makes sense is that it is a genetic defect which means gays will continue to be born. If we can isolate the gene then it can be changed. Maybe not now but in the future.

Colon boy.. That's funny Also sexist What about the girls?

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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11-04-2004 05:06 AM  13 years agoPost 65
KnimRod

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Central Michigan

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Homosexuals have the same rights and privileges as everyone else now! Every man has the right to marry a woman and every woman has the right to marry a man. The issue is special rights and activist courts run amok, re-defining tradition and morality regardless of what society wants. Where will this "pursuit of happiness" end? Legalized polygamy? Pedophilia?

For the courts to change the traditional and sacred definition of marriage is trampling on the beliefs of those who have subscribed to traditional marriage where the complementary nature of a man and a woman makes possible the conjugal bond that is the core of marriage....the very bond that procreates.

This is not about hate. Why intrude upon the traditional form of marriage that so many practice and hold sacred just to accommodate a deviant lifestyle? The homosexual movement went about this all wrong by trying to latch on to an already well defined institution.

The people have now had their say.

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11-04-2004 05:07 AM  13 years agoPost 66
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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Side note

For those that like it Greek style (AKA fudge packing) does that mean they have gay tendancies? Isn't it just a means of contraception? Plus maintains virginity for the girls.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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11-04-2004 05:11 AM  13 years agoPost 67
KnimRod

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Central Michigan

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Isn't it just a means of contraception? Plus maintains virginity for the girls.
I suppose if a guy was trying not to get pregnant or preserve his virginity, you may have a point.

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11-04-2004 05:13 AM  13 years agoPost 68
rroback

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Irvine (UCI), Ca

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To be frank, if you guys felt you had good points ( which some one you had) or held high moral standards, you don't, becuase you've gone to the calling names. I'm not gay and I find them offensive, and you guys should have the decency to not use them. Clearly, you're not comfortable enough to even talk about the issue, without having to extra extrovert and make sure NO one thinks you could possibly side withe gay people by calling them names. immature.

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.

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11-04-2004 05:22 AM  13 years agoPost 69
KnimRod

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Central Michigan

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Will the Rainbow Bus take our kids to the land of diversity?
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/10/72004a.asp
School's Out -- Will the Rainbow Bus Take Our Kids to the Land of Diversity?

Caution: This article contains graphic descriptions that some may find offensive.

By Ed Vitagliano
October 7, 2004

(AgapePress) - Transvestite teachers. Boys kissing boys in restrooms. Teens taught about anal sex. "Gay" fairy tales for children. Could these things actually become a reality in our public schools? The speed of change in our society thus far, driven by resolute homosexual activists, indicates that the answer is most assuredly yes.


Photo Illustration by AFA Journal
In case some people think such projections about the future are a hunk of homophobic hooey, they might want to consider the fact that, in some parts of the country, these things are already happening.

So what changes can be expected, and what would life in our public schools be like if homosexual activists win the culture war? The following are predictions based on current trends.

Entrenchment of 'Gay' Viewpoint
For more than three decades, activists have been demanding that the public school system be enlisted as a primary engine in the effort to normalize homosexuality.

In their 1972 Gay Rights Platform, activists meeting in Chicago, Illinois, demanded "[f]ederal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality."

Similarly, in their 1993 March on Washington, DC, activists demanded that such radical instruction be taught on "all levels of education" -- federal, state and local, grades K-12.

Support for the homosexual agenda is already solid throughout the professional education organizations, such as the National Education Association, American Federation of Teachers, American Association of School Administrators, and the National Association of School Psychologists.

The National Parent Teacher Association (PTA) has also made it clear that it supports the normalization of homosexuality within the public school system. In 1999, for example, National PTA President Ginny Markell said her organization would be making available the video That's a Family!, which embraces same-sex families, as part of a nationwide effort to fight discrimination against homosexuals.

At its 2004 conference in Anaheim, California, the National PTA partnered with Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG), a pro-homosexual group, to cooperatively present a workshop that instructed educators about how to promote homosexuality in public schools.

Across the nation, outside homosexual pressure groups are constantly pushing schools to create an environment in which the "gay" lifestyle is celebrated.

Perhaps the most effective of these groups, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN), says it has almost 70 chapters throughout the nation. The group claims on its website that, by the end of the 2002-2003 school year, 1,864 student clubs -- called "Gay-Straight Alliances" -- had registered with GLSEN.

Other projects, such as the controversial videos It's Elementary and That's a Family!, have been instrumental in instructing public school administrators and faculty how to teach children of all ages about homosexuality. It's Elementary, for example, has been acquired by nearly two thousand educational institutions across the country.

As sympathy for the homosexual agenda becomes embedded in the nation's public school systems, the changes promise to be dramatic. Linda Harvey of Mission America, a pro-family group, predicts that: "School literature will be adapted to reflect a positive view of the homosexual family as a future option for every child. Josh will learn that he can grow up and marry a girl or a boy. And since at age six he probably hasn't yet discovered his sexual 'identity,' the fair thing will be to present all angles to him in language, health, music and social studies."

Opposition Will Be Squelched
If the celebration of homosexuality is one side of the public school coin, the other side will be the denigration of opposing views. And when those contrary views are rooted in Christian beliefs, the antagonism that arises from "gay" sympathizers will be even more vigorous.

For example, at Arcata High School in Arcata, California, Christian students in that public school were ridiculed for their beliefs about homosexuality in a sex education lesson. Led by a representative of Planned Parenthood, students were told to stand in a circle and were asked, "Do you have a religious belief about homosexuality that considers it a sin and wrong?" Those who did were told they had to remain alone in the circle.

The representative admitted that "the children who answered 'yes' had to stay in the circle. This caused them to feel very demeaned, put down."

In St. Paul, Minnesota, 16-year-old Elliott Chambers was ordered by his principal to stop wearing a sweatshirt that simply said "Straight Pride" on the front, and contained the image of a man and woman holding hands on the back.

And during a planned, day-long protest by homosexual students in Boone, North Carolina, three Christian high school students were suspended by the principal because they refused to change their "offensive" T-shirts. The objectionable message? The trio's shirts bore Biblical messages about homosexuality and salvation.

In some schools, where students have been steadily fed homosexual propaganda for years, it is sometimes classmates, and not school officials, who assume the role of persecutors. One woman, whose family had moved from the South to New Hampshire, said her boys were shocked at how they were received.

"My 16-year-old son had to deal with unwanted advances from other male students," she said. When she approached school officials to try to put a stop to the harassment by homosexuals, they refused. "[W]hat happened was the students found out that my 16- and 17-year-old boys were against homosexuality so they were taunted constantly and treated as if they were gay."

Homosexual Techniques Will Be Taught to Students
When homosexuality is accepted in principle, the sexual activities associated with it will be included in public school sex education classes. Frightening stories are already arising that give a chilling glimpse into what would be in store for public school children.

In 2000, the Boston affiliate of GLSEN co-sponsored a conference which gave explicit "gay" sex lessons to kids as young as 14, and then tried to keep that information from reaching parents. The event, held at Tufts University, was funded by the Massachusetts Department of Education. Lecturers explained to participants about different homosexual practices, including "fisting," the homosexual practice of inserting one's fist and forearm into the anus of another man. [See related article -- CAUTION: LINKED ARTICLE CONTAINS GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS]

In Vermont another "gay" group, called Outright Vermont, has been pushing the homosexual agenda in schools -- also at taxpayer expense. According to its own documents, Outright Vermont has used taxpayer money to provide "safer sex activities" and "parties" for teens, including "demonstrations, guided practice and skill evaluation" for the use of prophylactics, and the distribution of free condoms, lubricants for sexual intercourse between males, "dental dams" for oral sex between lesbians, and latex gloves for mutual masturbation between homosexual teenagers. In 2000 alone, the number of such items requested by Outright Vermont for distribution to teens was scandalous: 5,000 condoms, 750 dental dams, 750 latex gloves, and 2,000 packets of lubricant. [See related article -- CAUTION: LINKED ARTICLE CONTAINS GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS]

Sometimes the legitimization of homosexual activity is done in a roundabout way. Harvey says that "both GLSEN and PFLAG advocate book selections for youth that include positive portrayals of homosexual sex between boys, pornography use, cheating on a spouse with a homosexual lover, homosexual sex between underage youth and adults, and straight and 'gay' experimentation by 'uncertain' youth."

Acceptance of 'Transgenders'
Activists argue that human sexuality is so fluid as to encompass all conceivable orientations: heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and even people who attempt the alteration of gender appearance.

This latter group consists of "trans-gendered" individuals -- men and women who believe that their biological sex does not accurately reflect what they perceive their gender to be. Some, called transsexuals, have sex-change operations, while others maintain their biological sex and merely "cross-dress."

Such gender-bending concepts are already causing chaos in some public schools. In Missouri last year, the Francis Howell Board of Education rejected complaints from parents when the cross-dressing parent of a fourth-grade student chaperoned school field trips. In Brockton, Massachusetts, a 15-year-old male student demanded the right to come to school dressed like a girl, and school officials capitulated.

Meanwhile, in 1998 students at Southwest High School in Minneapolis, Minnesota, were forced to accept librarian David Nielsen's transition into "Debra Davis," after he began wearing woman's clothes to school and identified himself as a woman.

Alarmingly, in that case the school sent a letter home with students that defended its decision to embrace Nielsen's cross-dressing. "We believe [students] will be more enriched and have a better understanding of diversity by knowing and working with this employee," the letter said.

According to the Evangelical News Service, Southwest High School even presented to students "educational sessions" on trans-genderism.

Nielsen also upset some teachers when he began using the women's faculty restroom. Both the school administration and, eventually, a federal court, rebuffed the complaints of female teachers.

Groups like GLSEN, PFLAG and the largest homosexual lobby group, the Human Rights Campaign, all support changes in law which would include the full acceptance of trans-gendered students right along with those who define themselves as "gay," lesbian or bisexual.

If these demands are fully embraced, the prospect of gender chaos in schools will be assured.

Conclusion
For more than 30 years, homosexual activists have been demanding that our Judeo-Christian culture capitulate and embrace their view of human sexuality, marriage and family. If Americans ever accept these demands, they can expect to live in a culture that will be turned upside down -- literally unhinged from the sane moorings instituted by the God of heaven.

Harvey's prediction is of a grotesque culture that includes: "Lesbian bride dolls. Fourth grade 'gay' clubs. A king and king at the high school prom. Dating tips for same-sex teens. Bathroom ogling -- and sometimes quick encounters -- in the middle school boys' restroom."

Fortunately, while the groundwork for these changes has been laid, it is not yet a done deal. But Americans who believe there is something inherently abnormal, unnatural and immoral about homosexuality had better stand up right now.

If the public schools are lost to homosexual activists, our children and grandchildren will be thrown into a queer new world. And there's nothing gay about that.

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11-04-2004 05:27 AM  13 years agoPost 70
hoverman

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Temecula,California

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I used to tell people that soon the pedophiles will be crying that they're born that way and lo and behold a study came out saying just that. Imagine now being told that its normal and they can't help it and the 13 year old truly loves them and why are we persecuting them...These people operate on one principle, say it LOUD enough LONG enough and people will start to beleive you.....well the nation has spoken and we dont beleive

I for one agree with steve Don't use my money to promote your PERVERTED lifestyle

If you want to be a BUTT PIRATE then so be it dont use my money or school systems to persuade children that its just an different lifestyle.

I beleive In GOD but even if i didnt It doesnt take a genious to realize that thing going up your arse hurts like hell for a reason!!!!

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11-04-2004 05:37 AM  13 years agoPost 71
Peter65

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Roxby Downs, South Australia.

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The money flows both ways remember. They pay taxes just like you and me. Now we are heading down the road of total segregation. Maybe we should round up all the gay people and move them to one state. A state for gay mena and another for gay women. Lets then put a fence around them states. We don't want to know them do we.

Now what if this particular gay scientist developed a cure for cancer or lukemia. Are you going to tell him to piss of because you don't want his gay cure? I doubt it very much. This is where tolerance has to come into this arguement.

I still agree though that like evolution or creation there is no place for it in schools. Gay people should respect the rights of the majority. That's what democracy is all about. Majority rule. Let them live their life but don't try to make us think it's normal.

Listening to a gay guy talking about giving a friend a **** job just was not a conversation I wanted to walk into once. What goes on behind closed doors is there business.

Wow I never thought I had that in me

.

Laughing at yourself will lengthen your life. Laughing at me will shorten it...

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11-04-2004 05:42 AM  13 years agoPost 72
gwallace1

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Susanville, CA

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The "Gay Gene", "Homosexual Gene" theory was hands down shot out of the sky. First the NIH study tried to prove a causative gene theory, but later had to back down to an "associative" gene theory. When that was even further taken down by gene studies in Paternal and Fraternal twin studies, the whole "Gay Gene" "THEORY" sort of faded into the sunset.

I for one follow the scintific evidence that supports more of a nurture theory, where it is found that one is more a product of their environment, upbringing, causative events etc. We are a product partially formed of our own history, basically saying one is not born nor chooses to be gay, merely "ends up there" as Jerry Fallwell said when asked this very question.

Gay society, most notably the radical, largest aspect of that society would have the rest of the world believe that ALL Christians hate them. Well some Christians do, which is Biblically wrong. But merely stating a belief that it is wrong does not inand of itself make the case for calling it HATE. Also do some research......Gay activists have a very detailed agenda...They want acceptance, demand it. This was moving at a rapid pace with the onslaught of late 80's and early 90's media that tried to show gays interacting in all aspects of life as if it was "normal". Normal for parents, kids, teachers, religious leaders,
etc. and that it was a healthy, normal and viable alternative to heterosexuality. The gay agenda also knew full well that this would be met with resistance and would coin and exploit the phrase "homophobic" and press for recognition in hate crimes, discrimination suits etc. This lifestyle has been jammed down the throat of society and now all of a sudden those who stand up in opposition are hate mongers, gay bashers etc. I personally am tired of the exploitation of this as a normal, healthy lifestyle. It is not. Just as being an alcoholic, drug abuser, multi partnered heterosexual, smoker etc. is not. There are consequences to this lifestyle, and to criticize a person based on their (and mine) belief that there will be eternal consequences for this and all Biblically wrong, non-repentant choices, has got to be the biggest hypocrisy to date.

Just go check the votes in the state elections last night......the proof that on one of (and hopefully just the beginning) of the "gay issues" , The American public overwhelmingly let their voices be heard. Just the beginning. I can't wait to see the end of activist judges...coming soon. This however will not put an end to this debate, homosexuality, gay bashing or the like, but will be a positive step in the direction that I feel will bring about a morally just society. But there will always be those that wil try and press that this is "normal and healthy".

Just my $.02

Greg

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11-04-2004 07:12 AM  13 years agoPost 73
G.Man

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Bristol

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"Never saw any animals in the wild packin fudge...did you?"
Homosexuality is rife in the animal kingdom

But I dont think they get married straight or gay

Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)

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11-04-2004 07:36 AM  13 years agoPost 74
alanhsu

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Its sort of funny seeing bunch of people discussing something like this.

didn't read it all. but saw some ideas that are wrong.

First somebody said it can't be genetics since gay people cannot reproduce and the genes should die out already.

Wrong: (if gay gene exists) reason is we have hidden genes, genes that are recessive and not dominant. So a straight guy could have gay genes that is deactivated. And if his kids get lucky, he'll get some sort of deactivated gay gene from the mother, 2 recessive gay gene make the kid gay.

Of course this is a simplifed version, taught in highschool.
We can go on about how gay genes stayed in your gene pool (which I believe exists, there is even genes that can make you allegic to water, so what makes genes that make you gay so special)

So for the guy that said he'll teach his kids that being gay is wrong and then his kid won't be gay. Well, if you tell your kid that catching a cold is wrong, or being allergic is wrong, would that help your kid avoid those things? Of course not!

I guess for some it might be a choice, but for some its in the genes and you can't change it if it is in the genes.

Also, some think it is not natural and therefore it is wrong.
What I think is, it Is natural in some ways.
I think if gay people are happy being gay, then let them be.
People will continue to pursue what makes them happy, that is the law of nature.
So when you are gay/lesbian, laws of nature force you to keep pursuing being gay/lesbian because it makes him/her happy.

Also it is proven that many animals do have gay couples among them.
Monkeys, dogs, penguans, you name it. So I guess it is pretty "natural" for gay people to exist as well, after all, if a cheeta can do it, why can't a human do it? haha

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11-04-2004 07:51 AM  13 years agoPost 75
alanhsu

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Another thing is.
I guess for us who are not gay, we'd never get the idea of what it is like being a gay person. So why don't we just drop the topic.
Its just like your wife would never get why you are so addicted to helicopters.
But if she leaves you alone or support you rather than bashing your hobby, wouldn't that make you feel better?
If she keeps telling you how loving helicopters is not natural and therefore its wrong(after all, it is not natural, haha). And tell you how its adam and eves and not adam and heli. And then tell you how it can't be in your gene. Then say how bible says its wrong. Finally top it off by trying to illegalize flying helicopters. Wouldn't you be pissed off!?
You'd be like, WTF is her problem!
Now imagine you being that stupid person bashing gay people.
Gay people must be thinking, WTF is your problem!

So altough I'd never get what gay people are thinking, I really don't care and don't really wanna get it. they can do what they like to do and I'd do what I like. I will leave them alone.

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11-04-2004 01:20 PM  13 years agoPost 76
chas1025

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TN

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The topic is interesting to say the least. I find it amazing how people try to say that it is the morality of the issue. They always use the bible to justify anything they want to deem wrong, but on the other hand they want to use the bible to justify what they want. Those of you want freedom in the USA, but only for the people you deem fit to receive the freedom. Freedom is not selective.


We should not be amazed that the rest of the world sees us as the inbreds from the mountains that just happened to win the lottery!!

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11-04-2004 01:24 PM  13 years agoPost 77
Gearhead

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chas1025,,, way to go, but what about gey men that get sick with AIDS that raises the cost of your healthcare ??


Jim

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11-04-2004 01:53 PM  13 years agoPost 78
angelob

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chas1025...I totally agree with you. Well put.
but what about gey men that get sick with AIDS that raises the cost of your healthcare ??
What about the snowboarder/skateboarder that breaks a leg, or the guy riding a motorcycle that wipes out? Or the heli pilot that gets struck by a blade and needs stitches? All these are recreational activities that aren't necessities of life (except helis...), but would be covered by the cost of healthcare.


I would think that there are more healthcare insurance claims due to recreational activities than there are AIDs cases. Maybe we should blame these people also...

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11-04-2004 02:26 PM  13 years agoPost 79
Jagboy69

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(I cant believe this thread is back and still open )

but... Who here said this is a genetic problem?? What a load of crap! Babies arent born eyeballing a watercooler because theirs mom had an affection toward "water coolers" See that doesnt make any sense just like someone saying they cant help being gay! They are strictly products of the environment in which they grow up in. You put the gays on every TV channel, glamorize it, make the straight kid seem out of place.. AND WHAMMOOO... Little Johnny now wants to be part of the game. When people say they have a genetic problem through no fault of their own, this is a way of not accepting responsiblility for their behavior and merely placing the blame on someone or something else

I am glad to see that NUMEROUS states in this last election said enough is enough! THOUSANDS of people voted NO gay marriage, What does this tell you?? The gays are not as prevalent as TV and society would have you believe! Stop and think about it. How many people do YOU actually know that are gay? The gay communities voice isnt that loud. I am growing tired of this nonsense.
NOW GET BACK IN THE FRICKEN CLOSET!!!

Jason /// Sceadu50/9chp WWW.Jagboy69.com

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11-04-2004 03:20 PM  13 years agoPost 80
jerrythercpilot

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NOW GET BACK IN THE FRICKEN CLOSET!!!
...and close the door!!!!

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