RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2582 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Gasser Kill Switches
08-31-2004 03:22 PM  15 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
wolfdad

rrKey Veteran

Southern Maryland

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Gasser Kill Switches
My two cents worth on this subject...and, to some, it may not even be worth that, however, do me the courtesy of hearing me out. I am not an expert and I don't fly with CY (Cormorant Yesttees), however I did stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night and I did install a kill switch on my Bergen Intrepid.

Three reasons I bring this subject up, the first being the fact that sometime back, either here or in the Bergen forum, I read a thread regarding installation of kill switches and somebody's response was along the lines of "don't mess with it...just something else to go wrong."

The other two reasons are incidents related in posts here in the gasser forum where folks had a problem, could not shut down the engine (one of them in a full overspeed situation) and had to wait for the engine to run out of gas. Fortunately, both situations ended on a positive note, however, I wouldn't recommend "teasing the tigers,"...translated, I would recommend installation of a kill switch on gassers.

For a quick trip to either Radio Shack or your local hardware store and less than $2.00, you can purchase a momentary contact, spring loaded switch that can be installed very easily between the black lead coming off the engine and ground and, even with blades spinning, you can still reach under with something akin to a broom stick and hit the kill switch and defuse a potential disaster when no other method of shutting the engine down is available.

Sorry, sports fans, but I vehemently disagree with those who would recommend not installing a kill switch.

wolfdad sends...
"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 03:43 PM  15 years ago
mcatech

rrVeteran

Mount Gambier SA Australia

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Very good point
It would have saved me a nice new set of mah G2's as the rx battery
died while on the ground I had no choice but to let the fuel run out and as the engine leaned the head increased and the heli rose about 6 inches and rolled fortunately no other damage but a potential dangerous situation could be overcome with a $2 part and 5 minutes labour to fit a kill switch
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 06:20 PM  15 years ago
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
How would you have reached in and hit the Kill switch?

If you could reach in, just hit the choke or cover the intake with your hand.
Chris D. Bergen
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 06:43 PM  15 years ago
BIGRCR

rrVeteran

Easley, South Carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
A kill switch is just an invitation to get closer to the model that may be acting up. In most cases, NEVER attempt to approach a model that is spooled up to kill it. Your life is worth much more than that. Do as a quote from Monty Python and "Run Awayyyyy!!!!!!!"

I have killed gas motors in the past in an emergency situations. This has been when there was enough time to think out the situation clearly first. We use a long (16') 1" by 4" and and long broom handle. The 1" by 4" is first put across the skids between the struts CAREFULLY. Then the model is "pinned" to the ground and most likely cannot tip over. Then a long handle is used to stop up the velocity stack on the carb. This is one reason I use a stack.
BIGRCR- John Garst
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 07:06 PM  15 years ago
wolfdad

rrKey Veteran

Southern Maryland

MyPosts All Forum Topic
How about using that same big stick to activate the kill switch???

wolfdad sends...
"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 07:28 PM  15 years ago
BIGRCR

rrVeteran

Easley, South Carolina

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Well of course!BIGRCR- John Garst
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-31-2004 09:46 PM  15 years ago
wolfdad

rrKey Veteran

Southern Maryland

MyPosts All Forum Topic
John,
Wasn't trying to be a smart-a$$ with my last reply and, under most conditions, I would not want nor will I get anywhere close to spinning blades, if at all possible, however both of the other posts were regarding situations where no control over the engine could be exercised. The kill switch I installed on my Intrepid can actually be activated with an extended transmitter antenna or broom stick....might take getting on the ground and doing some pretty good aiming, however the switch is sensitive enough not to have to knock the heli off-kilter in activating it and, although Chris makes a good suggestion in getting to the choke, that is even a tougher target than the kill switch....strictly a momentary contact, spring-loaded, press to kill switch. My normal throttle curve is set-up to kill the engine at low stick and with the trim all the way down, however, in both instances (one with a servo stuck at full throttle and the second, a runaway, overspeeding engine), there was no control and, should this ocurr with a full tank of gas, I would probably be six feet under before the engine ran out of gas...and, that is an eternity with an engine running at full bore.

BTW, one could argue/what-if this one forever, however for me, it is a safe and sane approach to a problem that will rarely ocurr. I only put my two centavos worth in because of two freak instances in a short period of time where it did ocurr. I am sure there are those who will argue the what if the switch malfunctions for whatever the cause and kills the engine to which I would respond...."you better learn how to auto early on in your career....and fly two mistakes high." Not much salve on the wound of someone three feet off the deck in an inverted hover when the engine boinks out, however not much is in that situation.

wolfdad sends....
"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 01:55 AM  15 years ago
Al Magaloff

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I really don't see the difference between glow and gas. Just because you have ignition, you need a kill switch? Wolfdad, if you mounted the kill switch into one of the side frames, let us know if you get ten tanks of gas through the machine, before the switch or wiring fails. If it's a Rat Shack switch, you may not get five flights. Also, in order to have an effective kill switch, you have to test it as you would the mags in full scale. Every flight, with the machine running, blip the kill, to see if the switch is still with you. From someone that's been there, no thanks.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 02:39 AM  15 years ago
sabooo

rrVeteran

Allentown, PA area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I would suspect the biggest difference between gas & glow would be the 30+ minute run times in the gas machines.

I was going to take up Origami, but someone said the local club folded.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 03:26 AM  15 years ago
Malorie

rrElite Veteran

Paw squared, MI

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I am the one that said "don't bother, just something else to go wrong". I still stand behind that. I would never knock anyone for trying to be safe, however, reliability is a factor in safety. A wire broke loose from an extra solder joint can easily kill the motor in flight. That wouldn't be too good in some instances (more what if's).

If a glow machine gets stuck at full throttle, your options are to pull the fuel line, or wate for it to run out of fuel. With a gas machine, you have the additional option of choking the carb as it is typically accessable. If the blades are spinning and there is no control, there is NO safe way to approach that monster with a 10' pole of any sort.

Outside of the long run time, I don't see where human saftey is a factor in this issue. As Wolfdad said, you could argue what if's all day on this. The only thing at further risk due to the long run is the motor. I'll sacrafice that any time there is a question of mine or anybody elses safety.

As I think I said in the last discussion about this, I stand by the KISS method here. Every time I've tried to get fancy on any of my machines, it bit me in the butt.

Malorie
Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 03:30 AM  15 years ago
B.Hofferth

rrApprentice

walkerton in.

MyPosts All Forum Topic
cant stop engine
this has happened three times to me. once last fall i had a jr 537 go dead at full power on a venture 30, that ended with a tip over in the field that i was flying. the other two times were last week with the same bird but the stamped throttle arm on a tt39 broke in the same spot at the carb. the last time it happened i was trimming the bird in my backyard when it went ballistic with head speed, set it down and had to think quick, fortunately it hit me that i could use the garden hose to spray the engine with water and stall the engine. it worked with no damage! now i am trying to get in the habit to carry a small h2o fire extinguisher with me incase it happens again. i would think that this would work for a gasser also. i dont think that it takes in enough water to hydrolock the gasser or the nitro. if it did i would have had to replace many a motor on my nitro boats.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 03:50 AM  15 years ago
FCM

rrElite Veteran

Surrey, England

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Inspired thinking with the water hose!

Paul.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 04:09 AM  15 years ago
helidog

rrApprentice

usa

MyPosts All Forum Topic
A poor design on your part doesn’t mean a Bad decision or a bad idea on my part for safety.

There are other ways to cut an engine. (Fuel supply or electrical)
I have a foolproof switch in the works that will out last any kill switch on the market today.

It will be made specifically for gas helis that will not be affected by vibration. But I’m sure it’s a bad idea in the eyes of the all wise on RR.

It’s like anything is life is a matter of choice

This hobby is all about safety and having fun. It wouldn’t be much fun if something happened that could be avoided by a simple testing of a switch and takes no more time to check than checking your other equipment.

Some people are arrogant / ignorant in there ways of thinking or just plain stupid

It’s like riding a motorcycle without a helmet some do some don’t.

It’s the smart ones that do. It’s the dead ones that don’t. I know this first hand.


Personally, if I can prevent and accident I will. The people that don’t I wouldn’t want to fly with anyway. You cannot be taught commonsense it’s something you are born with and from reading this post I can clearly see the ones that have none.

Its nice to be the Big Dog.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 04:12 AM  15 years ago
helidog

rrApprentice

usa

MyPosts All Forum Topic
B.Hofferth


The hose was some quick thinking on your part. Good job
Its nice to be the Big Dog.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 05:05 AM  15 years ago
cjperry

rrApprentice

Australia

MyPosts All Forum Topic
wolfdad

Momentary contact switch.
Sounds good to me.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 10:28 AM  15 years ago
Al Magaloff

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Tom, ditto on the choke. The thing is, you can't design and sell someone this item! Helidog, design a switch that activates with the failsafe , so one could shut off the transmitter, and have the kill switch kill the ignition feed. Yeah, I'm going to shoot my helicopter with a hose! Why not a shotgun?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 11:58 AM  15 years ago
Malorie

rrElite Veteran

Paw squared, MI

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Nobody here ever said it was a bad idea. What I said is that it adds complication to an already complex system and adds another point of failure. There is no such thing as "fool proof", if you think so, then you haven't found the right fool. On helis, if it can fail it will.

If a person is capable of getting to the heli to hit a kill switch, they can just as easily choke the motor (either with a hand over the carb or by closing the choke), pull the plug wire, pull the fuel line, pull the primary coil wire, or spray water into the carb . Heck, you could put a finger over the breather hole for the diaphram and it would kill the motor as quickly as a kill switch.

They don't make a stick long enough to get me reaching into a heli that is spun up to ungodly RPMs to hit a kill switch or anything else for that matter. As BIGRCR said;
A kill switch is just an invitation to get closer to the model that may be acting up. In most cases, NEVER attempt to approach a model that is spooled up to kill it. Your life is worth much more than that.
How about this for commun sense?
If long run times is your only concern, how about running a smaller fuel tank, or not fueling it with 45minutes of gas? Quite often, mostly for demos, I run a half a tank of fuel or less to save weight.

Activating a kill switch with the falesafe might not be the best idea for the same reasons except, now you're adding yet another point of failure. It also doesn't do you any good if the reciever is the problem.

By all means though, add your killswitch to your machine. More power to ya'.

Malorie
Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 01:32 PM  15 years ago
helidog

rrApprentice

usa

MyPosts All Forum Topic
ditto on the choke. The thing is, you can't design and sell someone this item! Helidog, design a switch that activates with the failsafe , so one could shut off the transmitter, and have the kill switch kill the ignition feed. Yeah, I'm going to shoot my helicopter with a hose! Why not a shotgun?
Al Magaloff

I hate to disappoint you AL. But Yes that is exactly what I am designing.

And yes it will be tested on my bird for a long time before I let anyone in on it.

Like I said safety first. Ignorance is last in my department.


Just to set everyone straight.

NOT EVERY ONE HAS A CHOKE ON THERE GASSER

Also as is anything man made being fool proof.
If you think that will ever happen then you are the fool.

(If the space shuttle can fall out of the sky) that’s complexity.
Any arguments on that? I didn’t think so!

And I didn’t say that my switch would be fool proof or stupid proof,
But it will be better than what is out there. And yes if any one of you took time to read my thread on my carb butterfly mishap this is why I am developing a Good kill switch.

And this is NOT a sales pitch. I’m sure some of you are taking it this way.

This is a safety Issue that I personally will not have with my equipment anymore.

Only arrogance and ignorance would argue that point.
Its nice to be the Big Dog.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 02:57 PM  15 years ago
helidog

rrApprentice

usa

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Oh by the way I did say FOOL PROOF in my earlier post didnt I.
“SORRY”

Let me rephrase that.

“”Less likely to have problems with””.
That is the politically correct way of putting it

I could run for the presidency talking like that.
I never smoke pot.
Well I Tried it once but I didn’t inhale.

Like Malorie and I had both posted nothing is 100% FOOL proof. But I’m working on making it as close possible to protect myself and others around me.

I will post the mounted switch and details when I am finished with it for those of you that are interested.
Its nice to be the Big Dog.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
09-01-2004 04:20 PM  15 years ago
dariof

rrVeteran

Henderson, NV / Laguna Niguel, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'm not sure what all the argument is about concerning this kill switch. I developed this kill switch for my Intrepid. Works every time. Patent pending, so please don't take my ideas.

Best Regards, Dario
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2582 views POST REPLY
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Gasser Kill Switches
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 13  Topic Subscribe

Friday, February 21 - 12:52 am - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online