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Other › Logo 10 ideal motor and lipo config ???
05-31-2004 11:13 PM  13 years agoPost 41
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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Rick.

I'm pretty confident the TP packs will fit in your heli. They are 1.5" thick only where the power wiring runs along the cells. Elsewhere they can be considerably less. I have read the circuitry sits at the ends of the cells and does not add to the height so whether you wait or not shouldn't make any difference to the fit.

Rocheleaud.

It can be a blast seeing your heli fly that well. I'm glad you got to see the potential of your heli! I would like to see it too when you get your hands on the video.

I was at a large heli fun fly on the weekend. Pictures http://twisters.arsoft.ca/gallery/i...Spring Fun Fly/

There were a lot of very good 3D/FAI pilots there, including Scott Gray. All these pilots made me look like I started flying yesterday but I still had fun.

I flew my Logo 20 and 10. Seeing experts fly 90 size machines kind of puts your heli and your skills in perspective. Even so, I'm sure the little HV Logo opened a few eyes. This setup is truly a winner. The way it pulls with 12 deg. pitch is cool. It is particularly uncommon to have this much performance in such a small heli, let alone electric. It is smaller but definitely stronger than a good 30 size heli. I don't think it is as strong as a good 50 but hey, it's just a little heli!

Rob

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05-31-2004 11:23 PM  13 years agoPost 42
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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Oh. I forgot to mention. There were 6 electric helis there. My Logos, a Voyager E, a hopped up Eco 8, a converted Excel 60 and, yes, a Fury Ion.

Yes, even the mighty HV Logo 10 had to bow to the amazing Ion. It was great to see the Ion in person. Gosh I wish I was made of money...

Rob

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06-01-2004 12:22 AM  13 years agoPost 43
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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I just noticed videos of the Tri City Twisters fun fly are available here.

http://twisters.arsoft.ca/videos.php

I don't think there is a video of the Logo 10, but the first video from the May 28 Fun Fly shows my Logo 20 along with Joe Bajkor's electric Excel. The Logo 20 was running on 24 NiCds. Ho hum....

Rob

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06-02-2004 12:40 AM  13 years agoPost 44
Ninjak2k

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Centreville, VA

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Is the Orbit 25-14 in KC's power system comparison spreadsheet? I'd like to plug it in and take a look. If not, what are the pertinent data that need to be input?

Thanks,
Dan

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06-02-2004 04:10 AM  13 years agoPost 45
rocheleaud

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Montreal, canada

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Hey Rob ,

Nice video ... it make me thinking of my next helicopter . Logo 20 might be it ... but the 14 is also on my list ;o)) ... After the full day at gaz club , my hears still buzzzzzzz of the loud sound of gaz helicopter ... i am real happy of my choices .... still run after the guy for the video ... if i go back there , i will bring my hown camera for sure !!!

As soon as someone have those new TP pack , can you please post a pick of how you will fit them in the L10 ... thanks

Ninja2k I don't know if it's in the new version of kc's spreadsheet but i know that Gary ran those number in it .

Here are those number:
25-14
weight : 240g
kv: 755
io:2.3
rm:29

you can look in this thread on ezone to maybe find more info http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221902

ciao

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06-02-2004 05:29 AM  13 years agoPost 46
rickc

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Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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Called Esprit today and have my packs coming. I went ahead and bought two TP 4S2P 2000's instead of the 1900's same dimensions. Just 10.00 dollars more a pack. I was going to wait for the new TP packs with the safety device but I couldn't wait any longer. I'll go that route on my next set of packs. Oh well. Ordered me some Sermos connectors this evening even though I have a bunch of Ultra Plugs on hand. I never tried the Sermos before but it will make charging much easier. Esprit recommends charging each pack separately if possible and if both packs are charged in series to not full charge them. My ESC also arrived today from ICARE so I now have everything to get the HV Logo 10 into the air. As it looks now possibly one day next week will be the test hop. Our club has an annual plank fun-fly this Sunday so I'll be busy with that. Getting closer....

Rick

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06-02-2004 11:36 AM  13 years agoPost 47
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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rocheleaud

I just plugged the motor constants for the Orbit 25-14 you posted into the spreadsheet and used an 18 tooth pinion. The numbers are good - RPM drop is almost as low as the 16XL Hacker so it holds torque very well under load. Headspeed is a bit lower. So the numbers are saying flight performance should be similar.

The thing that is different is efficiency. At 75W/lb for example, the spreadsheet says the Hacker with 9s2p will be 88.3% efficient and the Orbit with 8s2p will be 79.2% efficient. That is quite a big difference. You can see why I wanted to try the Hacker with 9s! The numbers with a Hacker on 8s are almost as good, with an efficiency around 87%.

I think both motors are very good. But as I said before, if you've got a Hacker XL, definitely do not throw it away! Use a 16XL with 9s and a 15XL or even a 14XL with 8s.

Rob

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06-02-2004 05:36 PM  13 years agoPost 48
tabbytabb

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seattle

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rocheleaud or Rickc, what size shaft does the Orbit have? Is it 5mm??

I am trying to figure out which pinion I need and I dont know the shaft size.


Thanks

Tabb

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06-02-2004 10:58 PM  13 years agoPost 49
rickc

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Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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Tabb it's 5mm. I got my 18T pinion from FXAero.

Rick

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06-02-2004 10:59 PM  13 years agoPost 50
tabbytabb

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seattle

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Thanks, it shows as out of stock on the site, but I just got an email confirming it is in stock.

Tabb

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06-03-2004 12:10 AM  13 years agoPost 51
rickc

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Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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# 2818

Rick

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06-07-2004 04:11 AM  13 years agoPost 52
rocheleaud

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Montreal, canada

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Hey guys ,

I am back from the Crash club in Montreal ... Nick flew my logo 10 today ... here is the vid... no comment ,

http://homepage.mac.com/logomaniac1/.Public/logo10.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/logomaniac1...ic/logo10-2.mov

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06-07-2004 11:55 AM  13 years agoPost 53
rickc

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Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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I notice a substantial drop in rpm during maneuvers. I thought the HV setup should have the least. It must be the packs. I recall your using the Gen. 1's. Still excellent flying and great performance. Much better than my Logo on 12 cells and 2400's with the B50-11L. Plus a good flight duration. I hope my packs arrive today.

Nice videos.... Thanks!

Rick

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06-07-2004 12:24 PM  13 years agoPost 54
rocheleaud

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Montreal, canada

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Rick : you have a good memory .

It's gen 1 pack ( small packs to form a 8s2p , not verry nice and a lot of wires) and he flew the last 5 minutes of those pack . I whent to this club for Nick to fly it ( with full packs ) , but he was late and we flew the logo all the morning waiting for him ( without recharging ... 4 or 5 flights of 2 to 3 minutes each ) . I was on my start back home ( did'nt recharge the battery ) and he arrive and flew it . I did'nt have the time to recharge and i hoped their was enought mha left in the pack for him to do a small flight . And by the way , i am still on 21 tooth pinion with 80% governor ... that is not verry efficient . I will recharge tonigh and let you know how much was left ... but even in those not so nice conditions , i am sold to this machine . I will grow with it , and that was my goal .

Hope to have reports from you soon Rick ... and don't forget to put a pic for us to see how you did fit the two 4s2p in the Logo ... thanks , ( now , where are those new pack and 18 pinion ???)

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06-07-2004 10:57 PM  13 years agoPost 55
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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Cool video, Rocheleaud. Yes, probably not a fair assessment of performance with your current setup. Using a large pinion will increase RPM drop significantly. I would imagine using a low governor setting will also increase RPM drop a bit due to the inefficiency of the controller at a lower setting. (I have read brushless controllers are least efficient at about 50% throttle.)

Rob

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06-08-2004 12:06 AM  13 years agoPost 56
rocheleaud

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Montreal, canada

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That is still the black magic for me Rob ... but i know that each motor have differents specs and they are efficient in a specific range of RPM and Load . I also know that when you operate those motor in a non efficient range , they are bulding heat because the power you put in is way more than the power you have at the shaft . Let assume that at 80% governor and a pinion of 21 tooths , i only have 70% efficency with my motor : with 640W that i put in ( 32 volts x 20 amps ) , i will have 192W lost in heat ( wow, that is a 200W light bulb heating the core of my motor ) ... and only 440W going to the main rotor ...

Let's put back my 18 tooths pinions and a better battery pack ( more voltage under load ) and let's assume i am at 85% efficiency now :
640W In and 540W out ... 100W in heat in the motor .. that is more managable and i have now 540W to the main rotor ( that will translate in less RPM drop ) ...

Maybe i am wrong , if it's the case , please , someone , corect me !!!


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06-08-2004 01:01 AM  13 years agoPost 57
rscamp

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Ontario, Canada

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On several occaisions, I have taken the motor constants for a given motor and plotted the power and efficiency curves using Excel. It is an interesting exersize and much can be learned by studying the numbers and trends. However, as this is just a hobby, I quickly tire of such analyses and besides, this is just part of the picture. There are programs out there that are much more sophisticated.

RPM drop is related to the torque capability of the system. As you increase the size of the pinion, the RPM at the output shaft increases but the torque capability decreases resulting in more RPM drop under load.

As a very general rule, a motor with more copper in it will be more efficient. In very rough terms, a motor with a lower Kv running at a high voltage will generally be larger than it's low-voltage equivalent (contain more copper) and have a better Kv/loss ratio. This is due to it having a higher ratio of Kv to no load current if memory serves. Anywho, this logic does help explain the very high theoretical efficiency of the XL Hackers with high voltages (high RPMs).

Rob

Rob

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06-08-2004 01:52 AM  13 years agoPost 58
rickc

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Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

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Called Esprit today about my packs, they shipped Thursday. They were suppose to go USPS Priority, but they shipped FedEx Ground which takes about a week, arrrrrrggg. Well at least they are on their way. Everything else is ready go, so maybe my Logo will be back the air again this weekend. After 2 seasons of putting up with 12 cell 2400's and 3 to 4 minutes flight I know I'll be happy.

Rick

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06-08-2004 02:20 AM  13 years agoPost 59
tabbytabb

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seattle

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I am getting close also, my orbit 25-14 and ESC came today.

I am just trying to decipher the speed controller instructions

TPpacks should be here soon also

I cant wait to get this thing going, should be a nice break from the micros.

Anyone want to share their settings on the ESC? I just want to make sure I set it right.

It is a shulze 32.40K

Tabb

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06-08-2004 03:26 AM  13 years agoPost 60
rocheleaud

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Montreal, canada

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hey Tab , here are my settings:

1:0 (air)
2:1 (heli)
3:1 (constant)
4:1 (hi rpm)
5:0 (hard)
6:1 (19khz)

(1) and (2) are strait ...

(3)
it's the governor ... depend on your hown choice but the gov on this speed control is so nice : what is the point to pay that much and not use it

(4)
You need to .... period . Put it on the 0 and you will end up with half the speed with motor like the pletenberg (not interesting ) . I think it's related to the hight count pole of this motor (not sure )

(5)
Still undecided ... But i remember Etienne at Icare telling me to ... Or the support guy at Pletenberg

(6)
High count motor poles (10) , you need the high frequency


I had to set the end point of my throtle to 110 in the down stick if you whant this speed control to arm the motor ( eclipse 7 ) ... it looks for 1.1ms pulse ... 1.10000001 and it don't arm (safety , safety , safety )

hope it help

N.B i don't use the expert settings yet ...

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