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HelicopterMain Discussion › Possible to fly without a sim?
04-29-2002 02:27 AM  15 years agoPost 1
MaxC

rrApprentice

Cincinnati, Ohio

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Could I fly without training on a simulator first? I can't afford one. Are there any websites that say a good method for flying without a sim.... I suppose like traning in steps with short hops at the beginning or something...............


Thanks,
Max C.

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04-29-2002 02:32 AM  15 years agoPost 2
jeflies

rrNovice

Suffolk, VA

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Hey Max,

I have never used a simulator and most likely never will. Like many rc heli pilots, im on a limited budged and quite frankly the heli was on top of my list way before any simulator. It took me about a gallon to learn how to hold the heli in a stable hover.

best way to do it is to just burn fuel

good luck,

jesse

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04-29-2002 02:46 AM  15 years agoPost 3
Bugsquawsher

rrApprentice

Pflugerville Texas

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This is all true
But the sim can be about the cost of one good crash.
But in the old days people had to learn the hard way.

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04-29-2002 02:54 AM  15 years agoPost 4
Doug

rrElite Veteran

Port Saint Luice Florida....

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You can learn wo a Sim and an instructor would help. If the machine is trimmed out correctly you will only need to fight the learning curve not the heli

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04-29-2002 02:57 AM  15 years agoPost 5
crash-

rrVeteran

Ca

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You can learn to fly without a sim but take longer to learn.
And more crashes
I learn without a sim and started with helicopter first
tried plane next went back to helicopters
BURN MORE FUEL

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04-29-2002 03:07 AM  15 years agoPost 6
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I'd say don't do it with-out a sim

I had about 60 hours of sim time the first time I flew my Raptor, and I hovered it quite good, I was very happy, I had no problems hovering !!

It just turnd-out this way, that I had the simulator all this time before I could afford a heli... Some people say get 10 hours on a sim and go hover, I would say more like 20 !!

the Wasp

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04-29-2002 03:16 AM  15 years agoPost 7
Dirt Dart

rrNovice

Killeen, TX

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You can fly without a sim. I never used a sim and I could hover stable and went into foward flight after a gallon of fuel.
People used to learn to fly all the time before they made sims, or home computers for that matter.

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04-29-2002 03:28 AM  15 years agoPost 8
Ford Rollo

rrApprentice

Surprise, AZ

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no sim


No sim
Sure, you can learn without a sim.

Get someone who knows helicopters to help you get set up and trim your
machine for a hands-off hover.

Then set up a 6 meter square on the ground with Oranges or Tennis balls or
something low profile.

Then get your training gear and go for it. Hover at no more than 6" off the
ground and stay within the square. If you go out of the square, land...go pick
up the heli and move it back to the center of the box.

Don't chase the heli with the radio. It's counterproductive.

One you can keep the heli inside the box without sliding out, ever...then start
working the corners. Go back and forth between corners in front and on the
sides.

Once you're comfortable with that, you can probably take the gear off.

Next do tail in circles around your self in ever-increasing diameter circles.
Both directions. then turn the heli to 45degrees from tail in and do the
circles. Then turn the heli sideways and do the circles.

You're in forward flight...the rest is just burning fuel.

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04-29-2002 03:34 AM  15 years agoPost 9
RaptorHelius

rrApprentice

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

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I'm learning without a sim. I've put a gallon through my Raptor and have gotten pretty good at hovering. I mostly have been having engine problems lately, and the last couple attempts have beem scrubbed because I couldn't start the damn engine. A sim wont help with your engine tuning skills.

RaptorHelius!!


My RC Heli Website

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04-29-2002 04:25 AM  15 years agoPost 10
scott3

rrApprentice

Pensacola Florida

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Yes it can be done. The real question is, how many crashes will it take? It doesn't take very many crashes to equal the cost of a sim. Maybe there is someone nearby that will let you try out their sim. I tried a friends sim out and it took me about 5 minutes of crashing to decide I was getting one.

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04-29-2002 04:40 AM  15 years agoPost 11
Ken B

rrElite Veteran

Phoenix, AZ

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I'm of 2 minds on this

First yes you can learn without a Sim.

Do you want to? well let me give you some reasons.

First thing a Sim does for you is teach you the reactive control on the sticks. You learn muscle memory, this is useful so that when you find your self in a bad situation you can correct it nearly without having to think about it. Next the Sim will help you learn those first manuvers like Nose in, Loops, rolls, flips, al the way to inverted and then some. You can learn all these much faster using the sim. The Sim also allows you unlimited crashes at no cost to you. Lastly, you learn these simple manuvers at a much excellerated rate compared to others.
I was teaching 2 guys to fly, one who had a sim and the other didn't. Well the guy without the Sim is just getting off the training gear, the one with the sim has been doing Loops and rolls. Go figure...

The only bad thing about a sim is you can get to cocky and try something you arn't ready for. Then it can cost you crashes... I know this to be all to true.

It's a great investment to have and tinker with on those days you want to fly and the weather stinks.

Save some money and get one you won't regret it. In the mean time go out and learn to fly

Ken B

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04-29-2002 06:53 AM  15 years agoPost 12
vksy

rrNovice

33.895, -117.519

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There's no doubt you can learn to fly without a sim, but having one lets you learn fast and cheap. As for the money issue, try getting one used. You may also try 2 sims that are being distributed free on the internet. I haven't used either one, but I'm certain they work (albeit not as sophisticated or user-friendly as Real Flight).

Here's a link to the one that is completely free including a 2nd link on how to assemble the TX interface:

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html
http://www.net-express.com/nexus/fmsinterface.html

Here's the other sim, but you have to buy the TX interface:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/atv/preflight001.htm

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04-29-2002 03:27 PM  15 years agoPost 13
Brian Bennett

rrKey Veteran

Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

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There was a time when a sim was not an option,,,then again, there was a time when there were no proportional radio systems. Yes you can do it, but I can't fathom why you would try. Financially, you will save in the short run.

-Gi

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04-29-2002 05:00 PM  15 years agoPost 14
Stet

rrElite Veteran

Key Largo FL

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Get one

I recommend strongly the CSM 10 simulator. They can be had used on this forum for $100.

Sure you can learn without one, but your progress will be very very slow, and you will certainly crash costing you more than the paltry $100 they are going for currently. New they are $170.

A simulator is not just for beginners, you use it every time you venture off into new areas, such as loops/rolls and inverted flight. Plus the rainy day uses are very nice since not everyone lives here in So Cal.

Once you move along, you can model the sim directly to your heli, entering all the mechanical values so that you can test the effect of different blades/paddles etc.

Do a few hours of OT or eat baloney sandwiches for a few weeks. It is well worth it.

I do a lot of setup training for local folks here. A few of my recent customers who have used the sim, and used me to set up their helis and radios correctly from the start, have been flying for a year now with, get this, no crashes. They are well into forward flight with loops and rolls and are really enjoying their new toys.

On the sim, you can crash thousands of times for free. This will help you develop the hand-eye coordination needed to progress without crashing your model.

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04-29-2002 05:14 PM  15 years agoPost 15
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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Let me put it this way,,, the first time I flew my sim (the Dave Brown DOS version) the heli went straight up, flipped over, and came down on it's rotor head, the sim said I did $180 in damaged to the heli (I never forgot that),,, I paid $140 for the sim, although I thought I paid to much for my sim, it was paid for in that one crash !!

the Wasp

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04-29-2002 05:28 PM  15 years agoPost 16
MaxC

rrApprentice

Cincinnati, Ohio

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lol, I'm thinking about getting the Realflight G2 Lite version unless my friend can get his friend to sell me his Deluxe for like $100. The lite version is $130.


Thanks,
Max C.

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04-29-2002 05:34 PM  15 years agoPost 17
ed vega

rrKey Veteran

nyc, queens

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I can't believe I'm reading this question - g2 is not a prerequisite to r/c , of course you can do it ..

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04-29-2002 05:38 PM  15 years agoPost 18
Hughes500Pilot

rrKey Veteran

Anaheim, CA

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Sim

Of course you can learn without a sim, I did...

If you are going to get one though, get the CSM version 10. It does not look as "pretty" as the real flight, but it flies very realistic. And that is what you want.

Or, if you want to save money, download the free FMS sim. It works good enough to teach you the basics (like Real Flight).

-Steve

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04-29-2002 06:03 PM  15 years agoPost 19
Greg McFadden

rrKey Veteran

Richland, WA

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Get FMS. it is free and many people make the adapter cables.

here is a link to a college student who makes them, and he even makes one that works with win2k/xp

http://fms1.mattclement.com/

you will be out 25 bucks total. The big thing is that the simulator gets your fingers connected to your brain in the right way. remember, your helicopter will probably not behave like the simulator as far as power to weight but it will connect your fingers to your brain.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-29-2002 06:16 PM  15 years agoPost 20
aashu

rrKey Veteran

scotch plains, NJ

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FMS Sucks

Compared to CSM and RF .. ! The heli doesnot act the way it should .. donot know if it takes in account of physics..

Garden State, NJ

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Possible to fly without a sim?
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