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HelicopterMain Discussion › Upgrades? Should I?
04-25-2002 01:52 AM  15 years agoPost 1
krbend

rrApprentice

GALLOWAY NEW JERSEY

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I'M PROGRESSING WELL AND PUSHING BOTH MY RAPTOR 30 AND 60 PRETTY HARD. MY ? IS SHOULD I UPGRADE TO THE METAL A ARMS AND OVAL LINKS OR ARE THE PLASTIC STOCK ONES GOING TO HOLD UP OK?

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04-25-2002 02:15 AM  15 years agoPost 2
Remy

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Washington, D.C. - MHA Member

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Don't know what you mean by "pushing pretty hard" but I know a few pilots flying wild 3D with plain stock Raptors. The plastic parts are not as bad as some would like to believe. At least for the R30. I don't have much experience as far as the 60 goes.

Remy

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04-25-2002 02:32 AM  15 years agoPost 3
Tday

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Needham, MA

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My experience with the Rap30 is that the quick uk metal swash plate (not the TT and is about $55) and a metal washout--(about $9) tightens the controls a lot. I got both at gr8 lakes. I think they added a lot as do most other Rap30 guys around here, though I know some who run stock and are perfectly happy. Don't think the metal oval links add much.

Tom

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04-25-2002 02:48 AM  15 years agoPost 4
krbend

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GALLOWAY NEW JERSEY

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I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SPENDING MUCHO DINERO JUST 20-25 DOLLARS TO GET THE METAL ELEVATOR A ARMS AND METAL FLYBAR CONTROL ARMS. I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF THE BALL LINKS CRACK EVEN A BRAND NEW SET OUT OF THE PACKAGE UNUSED.

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04-25-2002 03:44 AM  15 years agoPost 5
Tommy Boy

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Las Vegas, NV

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Ouch!!

That hurt my ears!!!

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04-25-2002 03:46 AM  15 years agoPost 6
YSRRider

rrElite Veteran

usa

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go for it, Im gonna max out my raptor! and fly it! hope I dont crash
I heard that the Quick UK swash does give you a noticeable difference as well as alot of the plastic control arms replaced with metal, but I guess the real question is, can your wallet afford it? the stock raptor performs fine as is, but me personally, I like the metal stuff.

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04-25-2002 04:31 AM  15 years agoPost 7
Virtual1

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Waterloo, Iowa - USA

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My theory is to upgrade when you have a need to. Some people like to upgrade just to give their heli that "all anodized aluminum/CF" look. That's fine for them but I'd get a lot more value out of a few galons of nitro than eye candy. You can probably buy two more R50 kits for the price you'd pay to make all the aluminum/CF upgrades to your existing Rappy.

My first upgrades to my R50 were to tighten up the controls - aluminum in the pitch controls in the case of the Raptor. Beyond that, I only consider upgrades when repairs are needed or when I see a good deal on used ups.

One thing I consider carefully is the "fuse" principle. Some parts are literally designed to break, and in doing so they save one or more other expensive parts from being broken instead. The tail pitch slider is a good example. I tail-tapped and broke an arm on my TPS, but when I looked at the upgrade, an aluminum version, I thought carefully. "Hmm, the aluminum one will not likely break if I tail tap again... but what WILL break? Something's going to break, could be an arm on a blade grip, the pitch collar, or a TR blade, and maybe bend my tail shaft in the process. That's a lot more than an 89 cent repair, and I don't have any spares on hand." That made my decision to stick with the stock plastic TPS. At 89 cents a pop, I can easily afford to have two or three in my parts box. I learned recently that this principle works the other way too... I had my head break when I plowed in inverted, which caused a great deal of other things to break as the head "ejected" from the heli and snapped mose of the head controls in two. If that would have been an aluminum head, it would not have shattered and my repair bill would have been significantly smaller.

The other thing - even if the upgrade isn't interacting with other things, you still have to replace it if you thrash it. God knows I'm not about to put on a set of CF blades, for now at least, I'm perfectly happy breaking a set of $25 woodies rather than $100+ V's. Same goes for tail boom and frame.

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04-25-2002 07:10 AM  15 years agoPost 8
kyoshokamper

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HOUSTON, TX, U.S.A.

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R60 WARNING!!!

Before you upgrade watch out for this one! I've built and flown and tested and trained on 6 or more of these and they all have a common problem that will tear the bird up on the ground. The long pivot sheet metal screw that is common to the elevator and the right side of the collective pitch lever is the problem. Even if you use CA per instructions the bolt will work itself out and will launch the bird from spool up on the ground straight back toward you ripping off both blades and striking the boom and supports! The fix is to force the appropriate length 3mm shanked hex head fastner in its place and on the other side of the collective pitch arm for good measure. Just last weekend it happened to a regular pilot at our field even though I've warned everyone! I have seen this now more than 5 times personally and feel that I should warn you now before its too late.

Here is my list of upgrades in order of importance.

1. Carbon fiber boom supports $30/protects tail and boom on hard landings and autos more so than oem.

2. Header tank $14-25/for loops rolls, inverts, helps avoid engine killing air bubbles in fuel line.

3. Dynamite fuel filter $5 and cheap one on exhaust $2/bulletproffs fuel system for daily dependability and guards against a trashed carburetor.

4. Fiberglass or carbon fiber main and tail blades $110/increases general flyability in all phases.

5. Metal mixing base with arms $40/assuming no bonified problems this part eliminates the brunt of the slop in the mixing system.

6. Head damper upgrade $20/ adds rigidity, strength and helps retain gyometry and tracking during hard banking, flares etc.

7. Metal boom clamp $40/ adds rigity to your previously upgraded carbon boom supports and increased gyro gain and performance.

8. Tail mount for rudder servo w/carbon pushrod $45/beautiful and functional.

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04-25-2002 02:13 PM  15 years agoPost 9
Waldo

rrVeteran

Middle of the corn patch (Iowa)

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If you are having problems with the oval links and A-arms cracking then I would recommend replacing them with the aluminum upgrades, if it gives you piece of mind then it's worth what ever you have to pay.

The R60 boom supports are very good, I wouldn't bother with the carbon supports, however the R30 aluminum supports are a bit week, buy a set of R60 supports you will have to shorten them but they work great on the R30.

This is the first time I've heard of the screw coming out of the "Elevator Parallel Lever" (Part #9 Page 12 of the manual) I could see this being a real problem. I've been flying my R60 for a year now and it is still nice and tight, I know this because I check screw's and stuff before I fly and when I clean my heli's up after flying them. I wouldn't replace this screw if you don't have to, just keep checking them all during your preflight and post flight inspections.

[b]Bill[/b]

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04-25-2002 03:21 PM  15 years agoPost 10
Virtual1

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Waterloo, Iowa - USA

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whereabouts in the corn patch?

'ey Waldo, what part of the corn patch are you flying at? Waterloo here...

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04-25-2002 03:49 PM  15 years agoPost 11
Twobeers

rrKey Veteran

Toronto, Canada

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You forgot about the ball links.

Replace all the plastic ball links with Rocket City Nylon Ball Links. Stock #77E Metric. Replace the screws that hold the balls on the main blade control arms with 2X12mm machine screws, the stock ones are a tad on the short side and some pilots have reported that they pulled out in flight.

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04-25-2002 04:09 PM  15 years agoPost 12
Heli-Driver

rrElite Veteran

Arlington, TX

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I'm with twobeers..

I recommend replacing all ball links with Rocket City 77E links. I did purchase the metal A-Arms and oval links as they come with RC links.

I don't like the stock TT links, they are thin and weak IMO. besides that, they only go on one way whereas the RC links can go on either way giving you 50% finer tuning adjustment on the linkages.

I personally think the metal blade grips were a good upgrade, it removed all the radial and lateral slop in my Raptor 30. The Raptor 60 plastic grips are much better and don't have near the built-in slop as the 30 grips.

The metal washout base wears fast and after a few months of hard flying it is as loose as the stock plastic. I'm on my second metal base unit and I'm thinking about going back to a plastic base. Get the one with a brass insert and keep it lubed!



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters

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04-25-2002 04:16 PM  15 years agoPost 13
Waldo

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Middle of the corn patch (Iowa)

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I'm about 30 miles north of ya on Hwy 63, I saw your photo in the paper did you know it's illegal to fly R/C in Waterloo City parks? Heck they won't even let ya fly stunt kites the jerks. I fly at a private field out in the country, it's only good every other year due to crop rotation. It's great when the field is full of soft fluffy bean plant's I've gone in inverted and and only bent the flybar. Corn on the other hand shuts the field down it's kind of a small grass area so the 10 foot tall corn really shortens your field of view you would have to fly over your head and that's not a good Idea. Have you heard of a town called Fredricksburg? they have a nice little R/C field there I will probably do most of my flying there this summer, it's about 15 miles from where I live but it's a good place to fly.

[b]Bill[/b]

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04-25-2002 04:29 PM  15 years agoPost 14
Waldo

rrVeteran

Middle of the corn patch (Iowa)

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Virtual1,

Helicopter fliers are kind of rare in this area, I bet there isn't more than 5 of us in a 30 mile radius, I wish we could get more into it then we might be able to get Bob's R/C to stock parts. I'm getting tired of having to order everything it seems like no matter how many spares you have you always need the one thing you don't have.

[b]Bill[/b]

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04-25-2002 05:40 PM  15 years agoPost 15
Lift

rrElite Veteran

Houston, TX

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Upgrades

krbend,

The stock ones are brittle but something has to give or you strip a servo. I do like the idea of having a quality replaceable link on the arm. I have the upgrade A-Arms on my R60. I do like them. They are a crash survivor type part. Not a necessary item though. As a matter of fact I have:
PV0284 - Metal Swashplate
PV0285 - Metal Elevator Lever Set
PV0286 - Metal Elevator Arm Links
PV0290 - Metal Washout Assembly(arms & mixing base)
PV0293YS - Metal Fan for YS
PV0310 - Large Fuel Tank
PV0301 - Carbon Fiber Boom(for grins )
?????? - Metal Main Shaft bearing blocks.

The rest I am not to crazy about. In a crash head parts are usually victims. I like to stay away from those parts due to the cost of replacement.

Truth is that most people who have never done an upgrade on the Raptors are the ones that suggest staying away from the upgrades. I was one of them. But, once you put a quality metal upgrade in replace of a worn out one you soon realize what the rave is all about.

My mixing base was loose as a goose. I have an orginal '99 R30 and it had to be replaced. So, I bought the stock replacement and was not impressed. Then I bought the metal mixing base from HeliHut and noticed how much fine cyclic inputs improved in a hover.

The metal fan from Quick puts out a TON more airflow than stock. Does it make you fly better. NO. But it does help your engine run cooler which improves longevity.

The CF boom supports for the 30 are great. Mine have survived an inverted crash, failed JR531 servo failure crash on elevator(tail first), and a basic hover crash when beginning. Each time the boom bent behind the boom clamp!

I am putting the Quick UK swashplate on this weekend. I expect great things since this should provide some even tighter response on cyclic. With my stock swash plate you can hold each blad grip and try to increase/decreas pitch by turning the grip and see the top metal ring on the swashplate separate ALOT. Not good.

I would suggest servos as an upgrade. I am saving to replace my JR531s with the Futaba 9252 digital servos for my R30. Some people like to see how cheap they can get away with. But it always comes back to bite you. Put the BEST servos in your heli you can AFFORD. The 9252s will transfer to a 60 heli just fine if I decide to get another.


I will have to admit that my R60 flies as good if not better than my Fury did with the OS 61 WC. If anything it is certainly faster in FFF. Don't take the advise that you should sell the R30 or R60 if you are having to upgrade it to make it better. . The Raptors are great. A little TLC and attention to the details and you will do fine with your R30 & R60.

Truth is that all Helis have upgrades available. You just have to decide at what price are you willing to spend before it isn't worth it to try to make a specific bird perform to your expectations

Don't be affraid of the mighty UPGRADE bug!!

//Payton

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Upgrades? Should I?
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