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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Concept 30 SR-T Hex Starter & OS32 SX-H Muffler
04-23-2002 02:35 AM  15 years agoPost 1
FSFirst

rrNovice

Auburn Hills, Michigan

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I've just started to hover with a old Concept 30 and really don't like the plastic cone for starting. I've all ready melted it a bit due to oil on the cone and was either going to get the alum. starter cone or better yet switch to the hex starter. Problem, I was told that a hex starter isn't available for this motor position. Is this true? I'm thinking of making my own if it isn't available.

Is it worth the upgrade to the Helimax Turbo Fan II for better airflow for cooling?

Also, is there a better muffler other than the stock one for a bit more performance. I heard that Helimax make's a decent one. I'm not looking for anything for peak performance, I'm just learning and don't want to be fussing with carb tuning all the time.

I run Byron 15% Heli.

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04-23-2002 01:11 PM  15 years agoPost 2
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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I'm restoring an SR, and also would like a hex adapter for the start cone. I seem to recall that someone made one, quite a while back when the Concept was popular. Maybe it was one of the Brit aftermarket companies? I'm not sure...

The Kyosho "can" for scale bodies is a trouble-free muffler. I don't have the number handy, but do a search on the Empire's site for heli mufflers; it costs around $45. They also have a HeliMax version for $20, but I seem to recall that one wasn't as good, even though it looks identical.

Anyway, when I was flying Concepts regularly I found that the key to making that inverted engine happy was a good low-end mixture. It is easily flooded out, so if you get the low-end mixture just rich enough to prevent a lean mid-range but still idle reliably, your life will be much easier.

Hatori makes a gorgeous Concept muffler; $72 from Rick's. It is the Hatori SB-8. Doesn't get any better than that.

Steve

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04-23-2002 03:09 PM  15 years agoPost 3
concept1

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Youngstown, OH

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I do like the helimax fan and start cone combo, that is what i use and have had no problems with it, it may be my imagination but seems to run better also. but if you find a hex cone let us know, I am thinking about a scale fuse, and if so a smaller cone wuld be nice also.

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04-23-2002 09:19 PM  15 years agoPost 4
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Kyosho offered a special start cone (about the same size as the original; part # H3216) for their semi-scale bodies along with an extension shaft. The extension shaft (part # H3215) had a dog-bone on the business end that fit into a matching cut-out on the cone.

The part # for that Kyosho scale body muffler is H3226.

Steve

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04-23-2002 09:59 PM  15 years agoPost 5
PHI flyer

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Bowie, Maryland

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I have the special hex adapter for mine. I needed it for the Jet Ranger body. It's not a cone, its a round piece that fits in place of the stock cone and has a hex shape in the middle. The extension shaft fits into a standard rubber piece that fits into the aluminum starter drive cone. I keep this setup on it even if I'm not using the Jet Ranger body.

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04-24-2002 01:21 AM  15 years agoPost 6
rc3heli

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Kirkland, WA

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I use the Pegae metal fan and adapter. They also make an adapter for the stock platic fan.

Reyes

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04-24-2002 02:34 AM  15 years agoPost 7
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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I had the Pegae on one of my SRs; great system. Wouldn't work on a TSK MyStar, though, so I got rid of it.

PHI flyer, where did you get your hex adapter?

Are you flying in the Gulf? if so, where's your base?

Steve

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04-24-2002 04:10 AM  15 years agoPost 8
FSFirst

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Auburn Hills, Michigan

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Thanks for the info guys. I'll check on the mufflers and hopefully PHI flyer responds on the hex starter.

More problems today though. I bumped the grass a couple of times with the rear rotor blades. Sounded like a gear somewhere was grinding and today I found out the main gear has a tooth missing. I even used a piece of a coathanger on the rear fin as an extension but it bent on contact. Now it looks like a major disassembly to replace that gear. I guess it will be a good time to add that aluminum fan and do a close overall inspection.

I've seen that Kyosho offers a larger fuel tank, 270ml/9oz. I was thinking of putting this one in while I have the frame apart.

Steve Campbell2-- On your SR restoration are you upgrading the plastic swashplate ball ends? I've got almost 1 gal of fuel through mine and wonder on the life expectancy of the plastic ball joints.

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04-24-2002 12:59 PM  15 years agoPost 9
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Those balls will wear out fairly quickly. Upgrading to metal ones is an excellent idea, all over the ship (blade grips, bellcranks, etc.). The Empire still lists the little tool that Kyosho made to easily do this, as well as the balls. But you're talking serious tedium there, bud... Hope you've got lots of patience. You'll need a #00 Phillips head screw driver for those tiny screws. Get a razor saw, too. That's the best tool to cut off the plastic balls with.

I have the SR swashplate, with all metal balls. I would not try replacing the plastic balls on the DX swash unless you know how to disassemble it.

Changing a main gear is no big deal. You've got to pull the mast up, but once that's done the old gear will pop right out of the frames. Swap the auto hub and pop the new one back in.

One very important thing to remember about Concepts is that when re-installing a main shaft, the four 3mm grub screws that secure the mast stopper (the ones that you can only access through the tiny hole in the upper right side of the frame) must be tightened in a 180 degree pattern to keep from mis-aligning the mast.

IOW, first tighten one until it just touches the mast. Turn the head 180 degrees and lightly tighten that one. Now turn the head 90 degrees, lightly tighten that one. Now turn the head 180 degrees, lightly tighten. Proceed back and forth in this pattern, tightening just a taste more each time, until all four screws are tight.

I would check your tail gears as well. No sense in taking any chances.

Steve

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04-24-2002 02:07 PM  15 years agoPost 10
PHI flyer

rrApprentice

Bowie, Maryland

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I got the hex starter from Tower about 10 years ago when I got the Jet Ranger fuse. I looked on their site and they dont carry it any more and I didnt find it at Kyosho's or Rick's either. Tower has one that they say will work but its designed for the Caliber. And by the way, I ran my Concept 30 for about 10 gallons with a tooth missing on the main gear. Had no problems at all until one time the tail touched the ground and stripped the pinion for the tail output. Then I replaced that with a metal one and went ahead and stuck a new main gear in while I had it apart. I also put a metal swash assembly on it with all the metal ball links. Makes a good upgrade and looses alot of the play that the plastic one had.

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04-24-2002 02:08 PM  15 years agoPost 11
kyoshokamper

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HOUSTON, TX, U.S.A.

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Helimax Drill Jig/Zeal 6mm hex start adaptor for concept all series

The hex adapter referred to is made by zeal the authorized upgrade firm for Kyosho. The part is a gold and black adonized drop in for the oem cone for any concept 30 or 60 including the metal zeal fan for either. Even the concept 60sr2 graphite with the oem zeal metal fan will take the hex adaptor with just 2 screws! This part however, is not compatible with the Helimax metal upgrade 2-pc fan. The part was available from http://www.omnimodels.com for about $15 a copy and fits the standard 6mm raptor shafts but you really need an adaptor with a one way bearing. When last I checked it was discontinued via omni though. Part# Z8023, related part#s are Z8021 for nexus and Z8021 for 46vr. Click on Omni link above and search them.

The Pegae IMO is a far too expensive conversion option that I refused to consider, though I've seen it work well. But, $60 for one part on the bird, and nearly $100 for the starter adaptor is just outrageous to me. Now I could see if were a special electric remote starting for a neat scale or something, but to drop over $160 smacks + tax for simple manual starting when a beautiful zeal viable alternative exists is unreasonable IMO.

The package for changing out plastic balls I believe is still available from various webs for $1.00! I used it on my old Hawk all over the bird, however you cannot replace the inner swashplate balls as there usually isn't enough meat to safely tap into. The instructions that come with the Helimax Drill Jig warn you not to do that. Both Omni and Tower Hobbies have part# HMXE4800 for 99cents!

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04-24-2002 05:52 PM  15 years agoPost 12
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Okay, I'm confused.

You say that Zeal makes a "drop in for the OEM cone for any concept 60 or 30".

Then, in the next breath, you say it "fits the standard Raptor 6mm shafts but you really need an adaptor with a one-way bearing".

Could you be a bit more specific? You're describing two totally different applications for one part. It may well do all of that; but I'm thinking that if it was large enough to fit snugly into a C-30 fan, it is probably too large to fit a Raptor.

I am with you on the need for an adaptor with a torrington bearing, although the Raptor has that in the clutch. But the rather common start shaft arrangement on the Raptor and the Concept's very UN-common set-up are leagues apart.

Zeal part # 8023 is discontinued at The Empire, too; big surprise there, eh? The tech notes say it is for the C-60. I seem to recall that the extension part of the C-60 fan was definitely larger in diameter than the C-30. Perhaps this part fits over the outside of the C-30 extension instead of inside?

Really a moot point, now, I suppose. Good thing I've got a KSJ adapter that I can easily switch between 6mm hex shaft or rubber cup extensions...

Steve

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04-24-2002 08:13 PM  15 years agoPost 13
PHI flyer

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Bowie, Maryland

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The hex adapter I have is not a zeal product. I'm pretty sure it is a Kyosho product. The extension shaft is aluminum and the adapter plugs in place of the cone and is aluminum with a hardened steel hex insert. All I could suggest is to search some hobby shops that may still have one sitting on the shelf. I dont think they are produced any more if Tower doesnt have it.

UPDATE: After extensive research, here are the part numbers for the adapter I have. From Kyosho web site:
Jet Ranger and Hughes 500 require scale muffler (KYOE5085), extension shaft and start cone (KYOE5099 & KYOE6020).
The shaft and start cone also show up with these stock numbers.
KYOE5099-H3263 KYOE6020-H3232.

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04-24-2002 11:14 PM  15 years agoPost 14
arcpilot

rrNovice

So. Cal.

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Concept 30 6mm Hex Adapter

Ok, here is the correct info once and for all...

The part you are looking for is a "Kyosho HP Hex Start Cone 46VR". Tower Hobbies sells them under their item number "LXLP62". The Kyosho part number is "Z8022". Yes, it is a ZEAL part. However Tower list it under a Kyosho part???

Now before you jump down my throat that this is a VR part... This WILL FIT THE FOLLOWING HELICOPTERS WITHOUT MODIFICATION:

Concept 30 DX
Concept 30 SE
Concept 30 SX
Concept 30 SR
Concept 30 SR-T
Concept 30 SR-X
Concept VR (30)
Concept VR (46)

It fits inside the original plastic fan (the original plastic start cone must be removed). It is held in place by two screws.

I know it fits perfectly because I have on on my Concept 30 SE. And as we all know, the DX, SE, SX, SR, SR-T and SR-X all use the same plastic fan. Will it work with the metal turbo fan, I have no idea...

If you sill dont believe me, just email me and I can send you a photo!

Since there is no one-way bearing on the helicopter, it is nice to have a one way bearing on the start shaft. However, it is not necessary! I start mine with my NON-ONE WAY BEARING 6mm START SHAFT all the time. I just hold the shaft as I unplug it from the hex starter...

I hope this helps.

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04-24-2002 11:29 PM  15 years agoPost 15
PHI flyer

rrApprentice

Bowie, Maryland

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arcpilot.
There is no incorrect info in this thread. Yes, Tower has that part. Maybe it is a Zeal part. I saw the same thing when I searched for the one I have. ITS NOT THE SAME!! Yes, the one you describe will work according to Tower but ITS NOT THE SAME PART. I will take a picture of the one I have tonight. I guess I'm the only one left anywhere that has the original hex adapter from 14 years ago that is not produced anymore.

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04-25-2002 02:27 AM  15 years agoPost 16
Steve Campbell

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Baton Rouge, LA

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What a trip; will the REAL hex adapter please stand up???

I dunno about you guys, but now I'm thoroughly confused.

Still, if a "standard" hex adpter for 5 or 6mm shafts would be a slip fit inside the Concept's fan hub extension, and you could secure it with two 3mm bolts, then I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work like a champ.

Steve

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04-25-2002 04:20 AM  15 years agoPost 17
Hughes500Pilot

rrKey Veteran

Anaheim, CA

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Photos Of Hex Starter

I have several Concept 30 helicopters. I prefer to use my
6mm hex starter since I have scale bodies on them. Therefore, I have
switched them all over to the Zeal (Kyosho) 6mm hex adapter.

There seems to be some confusion about what fits what and
what part number is what. Based on what I have read,
ARCPILOT seems to have it correct.

Here is a photo of the Zeal 6mm as it comes in the package.
As you can see, the Zeal part number is Z8022.

Here is a photo of the adapter alone. Sorry for the crappy photo.

Here is a photo of the hex adapter in a "STOCK" Concept 30
plastic fan.

As you can see, it fits perfectly in the fan. It fits in there nice and
tight.

As for needing a start shaft with a one-way bearing. I guess
it would be helpful, but I dont use one. Mine is a standard
6mm hex shaft (Hirobo brand).

As for a 14 year old hex adapter that came with the original concept
30's... There might have been one. But why bother hunting all over
for one when you can just use the above adapter.

-Steve

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04-25-2002 05:17 AM  15 years agoPost 18
kyoshokamper

rrApprentice

HOUSTON, TX, U.S.A.

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zeal 6mm hex adaptor

That's it huges500pilot! I'm almost 99% sure that the same part will fit the entire Concept 60 line and vr line as well. I bought several of them a few years back from omni and I'm darn sure they all fit everything I owned then. I think Kyosho is up to their old part# switching again because I believe that the vr line uses the same id on their oem fans as the concept 30's, even though you can't tell from the part#s and packaging. Bet they changed the part# and it just shows discontinued for absolutely nothing. Note that the packaging lists fittament for the vr46 and not the vr32! That can't be can it? Hey Huges500pilot, if you have any c60's or c60 fans verify the z8022 fit yes or no to put my mind at ease because I threw my packaging away long ago. Thanks

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04-25-2002 05:48 PM  15 years agoPost 19
Steve Campbell

rrElite Veteran

Baton Rouge, LA

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Finally! And The Empire shows it in stock!

Thanks to Steve and the rest of you guys.

Steve

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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Concept 30 SR-T Hex Starter & OS32 SX-H Muffler
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