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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Does a Gasser Fly Like a Nitro?
01-05-2018 12:53 AM  3 months agoPost 41
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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No problem at all, fly what you wish
The downside to gas helicopters is the noise in my opinion. They are extremely loud and some clubs will not let you fly them because of the noise.
In regards to this, if you fly it with a zimmermam muffler the helicopter is very very quiet, quieter than nitros, really, I'm not kidding.

You may have heard some folks flying them with tuned pipes, those things can be ear piercing, I totally agree and would never fly with them even though they do give you even more power.

The zimmerman makes excellent power, I can swing 716mm blades at 1950 rpms with 13 degrees of pitch, yet is very quiet. There is a post about that on the freaky site under the gas section, just look for "Hanson power, baby!" by jharkin.

While you do get more power with electrics, there is no debate on that at all, gassers give you the most air time for the least amount of operating cost. Sure you don't care about that, but think of the convenience when you can start your helicopter, put you hands in the heated radio glove, and fly for 20 minutes un-interrupted over snow cover. If I was trying to fly my electrics, my hands would freeze as I would have to land and swap batteries every 3 to 5 minutes depending on flying intensity, and there isn't enough time to warm up in the glove, plus having to take the canopy off, disconnect and reconnect batteries, etc, its alot of hassle. Then you have to run the generator and burn your gas there in that, so you can make electricity to charge your battery for 4 minutes of glory. I put the gas direct into my helicopter, and get 5 of your flights with one of mine.

If you need to practice inverted circuits, funnels, piro flips, autos, etc, etc, the extra power of the electric is going to waste. You only need to fly the electric very fast and very hard changing directions constantly to benefit from that power, otherwise you're practicing something new, might as well put your electric heli down and pickup a gasser. It gives you time to learn, 20 minutes per session, say for example, to learn to fly around upside down and turn in all directions forwards or backwards. An electric is a waste for that. Fly it hard, the minute you ease up, fly a gasser.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4187 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3252 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1503 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 353 flts

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01-05-2018 12:55 AM  3 months agoPost 42
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Synergy
The 766 can also run in a 716 configuration
You probably don't want to do that, because of the extra weight of its size, you want the biggest disk possible to lower the disk loading.

The Whiplash can fly with 695 blades also, and the 300 Hanson motor power will be insane, probably not enough pitch to hold it back to a reasonable rpm, but the disk loading goes up. Because of that, I choose to run 716mm blades, the biggest I can put on it so it autos like a feather and still turns up to 1950 with 13 degrees of pitch.
Your math is off. If your paying $30-$35 a gallon for nitro your shopping in the wrong place.
Depends who you ask, I've asked at funflys and they tell me $30 to $35 a gallon. How much is it for you and are you buying in barrels to keep the price down?

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4187 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3252 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1503 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 353 flts

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01-05-2018 01:17 AM  3 months agoPost 43
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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Rotor rage 30% at the only hobby shop left in town $34.99 last i looked.
That's at Hobby Town. I tried a few years ago to buy direct from Byrons.
Don't remember exactly the price. but after has-mat etc wasn't saving more than a few pennies.

Also i know the blade bolt centers are wide spaced on the 766. So i think i remember it working out to close to 730 or so. May or may not matter.

Team Synergy Field Representative / Thunder Power

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01-05-2018 01:37 AM  3 months agoPost 44
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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the best 3D gasser out there is the Whiplash by Miniature Aircraft
in your opinion as a team pilot for MA (which BTW you haven't disclosed in your signature).....

and it is a good helicopter no question. All of todays gas helicopters are quite capable of 3D flying, there are many options available.

the Synergy is quite capable in its 716mm configuration, I normally fly it that way. It will float much better in autos in the 766mm config though.

Proprietor - Gas Powered Helicopters

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01-05-2018 02:13 AM  3 months agoPost 45
dbcaster

rrApprentice

Petaluma, Ca

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I buy a few cases at a time from Byrons. $22 a gllon with free shipping. I just priced 20% Magnum heli blend at $18.60 a gallon shipped. If your buying a gallon at a time at a hobby shop yes it's expensive. I don't think anyone that is flying a nitro as much as you fly your gasser is buying a gallon at a time. Buying in bulk is the way to go. I fly a nitro and a gasser. If they flew the same a gasser would be a no brainer. You are comparing an apple to an orange.
I'm not saying that I think a nitro is better just different. In my opinion, a gasser doesn't fly like a nitro. They both hwve they're good and bad points. I would say gassers have drastically improved over the years and are a heck of a lot of fun. I think everyone should at least try one.

Some arguments are sound and nothing more

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01-05-2018 02:17 AM  3 months agoPost 46
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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The last time I bought nitro , it cost near 40$ CDN
My 600N LE Was 1800$CDN RTF

If I wanted to do gas
It would cost around 3400$-4000$ CDN RTF 766

I had better fly allot to make it worthwhile, living up here doesn't help.

But if ever I get some extra funds that 766 is very tempting .

spending time, paying attention

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01-05-2018 02:29 AM  3 months agoPost 47
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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I always get a chuckle when gasser threads are answered by people who dont own one

Listen to Raja, Carey, etc... these guys are the gas experts.
Richardmid1
It did very well, im surprised! Some big air moves in there which actually require more power than smack sometimes!

I think it's all down to gearing. You can't expect consistent power trying to turn 2000 rpm on a 700 but 1750-1850 should give plenty of torque. Note in the video just how high that engine is revving!

One thing though, where is the smoke? Shouldn't there at least be a slight hint of smoke?
Power and torque are different things. Power is torque x speed.

You can gear the engine differently to put it at its horsepower peak at different RPMS, but regardless turning the blades faster eats up more power just overcoming aerodynamic drag at zero pitch. And that drag goes up at the square of speed -so increasing RPM 10% takes 25% more power roughly.

That uses up over 1hp alone on a 700 class at 200rpm. On those 766 blades its even more maybe1.5hp.

There is no smoke because its a gas engine running 32:1 oil. Does your chainsaw smoke? no, right? same thing.
Andy from Sandy
I honestly don't know and I don't think anyone has bothered to find out why in a glow engine the mixture is as low as 4 to 1 especially with all the fancy synthetic oils available.
Nothing magic about it. This is well known:

#1 the conrods all use bushings rather than needle bearings so they need more oil.
#2 Gasoline has some lubricity, alcohol does not. more oil.
#3 glow engines use the large amounts of unburned oil going out the exhaust as secondary cooling to carry away heat. more oil.
Doublah
The downside to gas helicopters is the noise in my opinion. They are extremely loud and some clubs will not let you fly them because of the noise.
Not true. Just like a nitro it depends on the muffler used. There are youtube vidoeos going around of a gasser being flown with a tuned pipe at high rpm, that's loud. Put a quiet muffler like the Hatori SB12R4 on one and its as quiet, maybe even quieter than a nitro. I have one and we measured it at less than 84dB at 25ft in a 1800rpm hover. Thats quieter than your lawnmower. QUet enough to easily havea conversation next to it, hear gear noise, etc.

Thats also quieter than most planes. WAAAAAAY quieter than my gas planes.

Don't believe internet legends....
pctomlin
Not to derail this thread, but what is the current situation for a good gasser heli to start out with.
MA Whiplash is great. Also worth considering is all the conversions Carey sells at gas-powered-helicopters and the Align conversions from Blackout Mods.

HelixHeli closed down. Don't know much about gasserheli, nobody ever posted a complete build story. I am not a fan of helibug designs.
cmartin
Isn't about the only place you can find parts for the Whiplash is thru MA in Germany?
You can order from Germany, or from Cajun Aircraft in the USA.
PaulBowen
Not correct.

MA Whiplash
Vario Benzin
Bergen
Quest Caliber ZG

It was my understanding the Synergy 766 gasser is going to be offered as a factory kit??

And until recently JR GSR260Z
Whiplash IS the only factory 700 class 3D gasser kit.

Vario is sport/scale. And isn't it still FB, very heavy and made for 800 blades?
Bergen only offers pre-built helicopters now. no kits.
JR stopped making helis and the radio division is in bankruptcy court.
766 is available pre-converted by Carey's company, but its not made in the Synergy factory.
Carey Shurley
in your opinion as a team pilot for MA (which BTW you haven't disclosed in your signature).....
Well fair play says that if he should put MA team pilot in his sig, you have to put that you are the owner of Gas Powered Helicopters in yours. It goes both ways....

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-05-2018 02:30 AM  3 months agoPost 48
PaulBowen

rrKey Veteran

Victoria, Australia.

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I dearly hope this hasn’t descended into a gas vs nitro love fest?!

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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01-05-2018 02:43 AM  3 months agoPost 49
dbcaster

rrApprentice

Petaluma, Ca

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Um isn't that the title of the thread??

Some arguments are sound and nothing more

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01-05-2018 02:47 AM  3 months agoPost 50
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

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Well fair play says that if he should put MA team pilot in his sig, you have to put that you are the owner of Gas Powered Helicopters in yours
I don't on this forum because Mark will delete or hide my posts as he will consider it non-paid advertising.

I've taken your suggestion on the other forum.

Proprietor - Gas Powered Helicopters

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01-05-2018 03:26 AM  3 months agoPost 51
Mark Ryder

Administrator

Ann Arbor, Michigan

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Carey Shurley
Well fair play says that if he should put MA team pilot in his sig, you have to put that you are the owner of Gas Powered Helicopters in yours
I don't on this forum because Mark will delete or hide my posts as he will consider it non-paid advertising.

I've taken your suggestion on the other forum.
BS

Mark Ryder

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01-05-2018 05:38 AM  3 months agoPost 52
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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My posts
in your opinion as a team pilot for MA (which BTW you haven't disclosed in your signature).....
The thing about me is that I'm straight up, I tell it to you how it is. There is no BS, if its good its good. It has nothing to do with being a team pilot or not. Its just the God honest truth, and yes its my opinion, and I have flown the Goblin, the Synergy 766 and the Agile conversions that you sell Carey.

I would gladly put more here in my signature as I do on helifreak, add team manager and make the signature the same as it is there, but Mark doesn't allow enough characters and I want to have my flight counts in there. I can barely fit those, and I have asked Mark several times to add more characters to the signature.

But that's besides the point. It doesn't change what I say or post. I have to be honest and truthful, that's how I choose to post and people who read my posts trust what I say. Please don't make it seem like because I'm a Minair team pilot I'm saying something that I don't believe in my heart.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4187 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3252 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1503 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 353 flts

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01-05-2018 02:28 PM  3 months agoPost 53
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Anyone know what the OSGT15 is like in a 600?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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01-05-2018 02:32 PM  3 months agoPost 54
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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oh geesh... here we go again....

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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01-05-2018 02:34 PM  3 months agoPost 55
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Anyone know what the OSGT15 is like in a 600?
yeah... set your max pitch at +-9 deg and turn your HS down to 1500....

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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01-05-2018 02:35 PM  3 months agoPost 56
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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Richardmid1
Anyone know what the OSGT15 is like in a 600?
Carey sells a Goblin 570 conversion for it:
https://www.heli freak.com/showthread.php?t=726700
http://store.gas-powered-helicopter...-ld570-1000.htm

Read that and if you have questions ask Carey, or go over to HF and ask jc23cl and Sowa... they worked with Carey on the design and testing prototypes, IIRC. The GT is temperamental and you need to use the special cooling head and piston retainer they make and be careful about the fuel mix, rpms etc...

These small helis look interesting, but so far I have stayed away due to the large number of "I blew up my GT15" threads and the fact that it ends up costing just as much as a Zenoah 700.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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01-05-2018 02:58 PM  3 months agoPost 57
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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RM3
oh geesh... here we go again....
Gassers seem to be very volatile.
Let's not turn this into a mine is better than yours
This topic has been informative so far.

spending time, paying attention

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