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Other › Tip for Trex Align owners..
10-29-2017 09:43 PM  19 days agoPost 1
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Just posting a simple reminder what I have learned about Trex dampeners. If your dampeners are worn out or may even be questionable.

Surest way to know for sure..

If you can't hover without the tail moving up and down vertical motion between 1400 rmps to 1900 rpms rotor head. You got bad dampeners.

Thought I would pass this along for you people.

Bad dampeners causes you to lose 500 rpms headspeed....this is a lot for people that like to have low head speed.

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10-29-2017 10:31 PM  19 days agoPost 2
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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How does bad blade dampeners cause a loss of head speed?

Just curious.....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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10-29-2017 11:58 PM  19 days agoPost 3
Doublah

rrVeteran

USA

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InvertedDude
Bad dampeners causes you to lose 500 rpms headspeed....this is a lot for people that like to have low head speed.
Makes no sense....sorry!

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10-30-2017 12:10 AM  19 days agoPost 4
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Sorry

Here is my clarification.

What do i mean the loss of 500 rpm? I do not mean the actual loss of the 500 rpms...the actual loss of using the 500 rpms anywhere from 1400 hs to 1900 hs.

On my trex 600 with worn out dampeners...i find setting head speed anywhere from 1400 to 1900 causes my tail to shake up and down motion. If i replace my dampeners, I can use any where from 1400 to 1900 headspeed.

Does that make sense?

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10-30-2017 12:11 AM  19 days agoPost 5
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

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I believe he is trying to say:

When your head dampeners are worn
- you will get an cyclic oscillation
- seen as in the tail by a move up and down movement
- hence, you will loose a useable HS of 500 rpm [within the range of 1400 to 1900 HS]

This occurs when running DFC setup at lower HS range b/c the DFC arms can not center itself and causes cyclic input variations [resulting in a cyclic wobble]. When you increase the HS, it goes away b/c the centripetal force zero out the DFC arms. This was evident in the v1 of the Goblin 700 with DFC Head.

That is why the awash driver arms play a critcal role cancelling out this phenomenon. Compass did a good job on their DFC. Their design let us use a wide range of HS.

Also, when storing heli's with blades folded, it causes a flat spot in the dampeners and may cause a wobble in a hover

- Scott

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10-30-2017 12:16 AM  19 days agoPost 6
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Heli Fanatix

Thank you!

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10-30-2017 12:23 AM  19 days agoPost 7
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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So, clearly the answer is to bump up your headspeed to 2100-2200 and the problem will go away..... the heck with low RPM headspeeds

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-30-2017 12:53 AM  19 days agoPost 8
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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1900, 2200 RPMs for hover, yee-haa
hold my beer while I bump it to 2500

Come on guys, seriously?

BTW Heli Fanatix, tnx for the translation

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10-30-2017 02:10 AM  19 days agoPost 9
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Hummm

Okay...3 minute power performance comparied to my 11 minute performance!

*joke*

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10-30-2017 04:09 AM  19 days agoPost 10
Doublah

rrVeteran

USA

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It is designed as a 3D machine. 1500 - 1900 on the head will produce negative results according to the head dampers and gear ratio!! Really????? You ask this or and try and tell us this stupid info?

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10-30-2017 04:16 AM  19 days agoPost 11
Doublah

rrVeteran

USA

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Sorry, but this is bad info. I do not fly Align, but this is simply bad and no expertise agreement.

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10-30-2017 04:44 AM  19 days agoPost 12
Doublah

rrVeteran

USA

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Should say BAD tip for Align Owners. So sick of people like you just typing about zero knowledge and offering bad advice to others.

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10-30-2017 05:10 AM  19 days agoPost 13
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Doublah

Ah the joy of the internet!

First of all, try not to get offended. You will live longer!

2nd,

I am not trying to sell anyone bad information. I have in fact an align 600esp. I don't know if you have read my other post of all the growing pains relearning from a 8 to 10 year break from the hobby.

I can only tell you what I have experienced. My situation, bad dampeners resulted the lost of 500 rpms from 1400 to 1900 head speed. My helicopter would just shake non-stop until you were either below 1400 or over 1900 head speed. Replaced the dampeners with soft ones, viola the magic helicopter is sweet again.

You can accept it or reject it. I encourage you to form your own opinions.

RunRyder is full of opinions......

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10-30-2017 09:39 AM  19 days agoPost 14
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Could there be other mechanical issues that are contributing to this problem?

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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10-30-2017 05:46 PM  18 days agoPost 15
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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EEngineer

Could there be other mechanical issues that are contributing to this problem?
Absolutely, but this is what I can tell you what I have done personally.

New Mase
Replaced flybar also paddles
New Spindle
New Thrust Bearings
New Bearings
New Main Bearings
New Complete 1 way bearing with 170T gear
New TT gears
Observed Frame Flex during spool up
Checked rotor hub for off set <--Have a new one in package
Checked Swash
Replaced Washout set
Checked for bent or damaged servo horns, ball tips, screws
Checked all moving parts from Servos to end tips of the flybar
Tried 3 different motors 1650kv, 1150kv and 880KV with various .07 mod pinions
Checked Torque Tube, even posted info on that as well in other thread
I even replaced the entire rotor head with another align set with different style dampeners....same problem.

I also replaced the entire rotor head to Raptor 50 and it does not inhibit these issues like the align head. I can set it to whatever rotor head speed I want.

Align Head:
If I spool it under 1400 or over 1900 it flies smooth. (I tested each head speed between 1400 to 1900 Via Governor from ESC.)

I will get my daughter to use the camera to post some videos later, that way you can actually see it for yourselves. It is weird issue.

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10-30-2017 07:13 PM  18 days agoPost 16
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Dampeners replaced

Used the 600NH2A

Spooled up to 1550 rpms HS....nothing wrong with it.

I am excited about this, because we now have a baseline on solving rather your dampeners are bad or not.

Videos later this evening!

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10-30-2017 09:30 PM  18 days agoPost 17
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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First Video of 600NH2A replacement

Watch at YouTube

N-1361HS
S1-1550HS
S2-1825HS

Enjoy!

I have an old video of the original dampeners flown if anyone wants me to post it?

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10-31-2017 03:09 PM  17 days agoPost 18
Heli Fanatix

rrVeteran

Fountain Valley, CA

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Maybe if you can figure out this riddle out, you will be a closer to finding the truth of thee matter:

Base on the results you have provided, let me ask you this:
"What is the main difference between your Raptor 50 and Trex 600 drive train?"

Focus on the spacing to make sure you are not creating a "double standing sane wave, let alone a single sane wave [depending on how many you used].

Replacing the dampers may be part of the solution... there could be another underlying fault.

- Scott

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10-31-2017 03:21 PM  17 days agoPost 19
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Mechanical resonance....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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10-31-2017 04:25 PM  17 days agoPost 20
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Heli Fanatix

Main differences from R50 to Trex 600ESP main driveline:

R50 has no adjustment from pinion to 85T gearing...clutch driven...piston driven. Tail is belt driven.

600ESP has many various adjustment from ESC settings to pinion spacers between 10T and 170T gearing as well as torque tube.

Are you implying that you can hear something I can't? Would it be spacing between the pinion mesh to 170T too close?

??? Am I close?

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