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HelicopterMain Discussion › Goblin with CC BEC magic smoke, need help
10-12-2017 04:09 PM  11 days agoPost 21
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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I'm not sure of who makes an external SBEC with a 12S or 14S input.

It's hard to keep up sometimes as the technology changes rapidly....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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10-12-2017 05:54 PM  11 days agoPost 22
Dawiev

rrApprentice

Middle East

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Are you wanting to use a BEC/SBEC to save weight ? Do you have space for a receiver pack ?

You've got an HV setup and can run a 2S Lipo directly.

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10-12-2017 07:50 PM  11 days agoPost 23
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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youngbuck
The only thing it could be is a bad soldering joint but that would not cause this would it?
The possibility exist since everything was fine until you moved wires. Hard to tell by photos alone.

Definitely consider a 2S LiPo (8.4V) or LiFe (6.6V) instead given your HV servos. A 20C in the 1800mA range should be good for at least 4 flights worth and no soldering required.

Hopefully you weren't soldering while watching game of thrones.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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10-12-2017 08:08 PM  11 days agoPost 24
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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As suggested already forget the BEC. It's handy to be able to power up the servos without the ESC.

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10-12-2017 08:11 PM  11 days agoPost 25
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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With a kontronik esc and its buffer batt, you can power the avionics without using the main batt......no accidental spoolups either.....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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10-13-2017 01:07 AM  10 days agoPost 26
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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It is hard to see how shorting out a main battery lead to the CF frame would cause the BEC to burn out.
But, it may be possible.

If you wired the CC BEC correctly, then you did nothing wrong.
The CC BEC Pro 20 will works fine on 12S.
Maybe it works more efficiently at 6S, but it will not blow up with 12S.
And it is perfectly happy running full size servos at 8.4v on 700 / 800 size helis.

Even if the copper wire of both output leads (+/-) of the BEC equally pressed against the CF or the red and black leads of the BEC's output touched each other (AKA: a "Short Circuit" ), the BEC would protect itself from exceeding 20A output.
Not blow up.

I've had CC BEC Pro 20 fail on me.
Most failed because the output power wire(s) broke off the PCB due to vibrations.
One just flat out died.
I'e also had internal BEC fail on me too.

But, no matter what BEC or other power source you use, you should always have a battery backup (EG: OptiPower Ultra-Guard 430).

However...
<=Speculation=>
If you have some piece of electronics that is screwed down on to the frame, you should check to see if it is providing a return from the negative servo bus back to the main battery's black wire.
That is not typical. But, it can be done.

If you have a millohm meter, you can easily check if this exists by probing from the black lead on a servo to the CF frame.
Dig the probe into the CF - I use a sharp nail or pin to dig down into the carbon.

If there is a low ohm reading, there is continuity.
Even if there is no continuity between black lead and the CF frame, also check the same for the red servo lead.
<=End of Speculation=>

On my nitro, the magnetic pickup for the motor's RPM is mounted on a metal arm and the arm is screwed into the CF frame.
The mounting arm is connected to the neg servo power bus through the sensor's power led.
When the arm is screwed into the CF frame, the CF frame now has continuity to the servo bus's black wires.

One day, I plugged in the 2S LiPo and the main red lead started smoking and it smelled like burning electronics (AKA: Magic Smoke).
After the panic and ripping the canopy off, I found the sharp edge of the CF frame had rubbed through the red battery lead.
When the copper wire contacted the CF, the CF frame starting to burn and the wire was getting hot.

<=Speculation=>
In your case, assuming there is no accidental connection from the CF frame to the black servo bus, there is still the possibility the CF frame is connected accidentally (shorted) to the red servo lead. That would make the CF frame float to +8v (or what ever the BEC output is set to).
Normally, you might not notice this.

Then if the red lead of the main battery (+50v) contacted the CF frame (wore a hole through the insulation), that would put +50v on the servo bus (max rating +8v) using the CF in the frame as a conductor.
Bad things would happen that might include burned servos, blown up BEC and maybe more.
<=End of Speculation=>

As for a recommendation for a new BEC: Good luck.
They are all mostly bad designs
Even a 2S LiPo has limitations

I've personally seen the Perfect Regulators backup battery and the and the OptiPower Ultra-Guard save 10's of thousands of dollars worth of helicopters after BECs, batteries and EC5 failed (the EC5 got so hot, the solder melted).
I watched a guy save a Velos Rotors prototype due to the 2S flight battery ejecting - that's got to be $5k right there.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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10-13-2017 03:28 AM  10 days agoPost 27
Ghostrider-rc

rrNovice

BC Canada

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I'm guessing you had a short somewhere ...
but if you want a good reliable BEC this is good

https://www.amainhobbies.com/wester...-hbecs2/p265790

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10-13-2017 05:05 AM  10 days agoPost 28
old nitroman

rrVeteran

Naples florida

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I have used there bec for years and never had a problem, something not right.

E5s and E7se,and a 766, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380and 420 ,180cfx

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10-13-2017 12:29 PM  10 days agoPost 29
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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I have Been using CC BEC's for years never had an issue.
The internal becs are more a problem

spending time, paying attention

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10-13-2017 03:33 PM  10 days agoPost 30
jharkin

rrApprentice

Holliston, MA - USA

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So it smoked (meaning it burned up)... and then you connected it again after that???

Next time something catches fire, dont try it again

I have had one BEC Pro fail on me - it was on a gasser and the wires came unsoldered from vibration. Since then I open them up and pot the board with glue, no more mechanical failures.

It *should* have more than enough capacity at its 20A peak rating to drive ANY modern servo, but we do hear of issues. Castle's designs are nice but their QC leaves something to be desired.

I would second the recommendations to look at WR. I would switch to those on my gasser generator setups but they dont support the specific output voltage I want (6.9v)

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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10-13-2017 06:53 PM  10 days agoPost 31
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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Conclusion- so I contacted castle today and had a very long and in depth conversation with them. Since the BEC was purchased less then a year ago it will be covered by warranty but I have no idea about the ESC. I'm 99% sure the ESC is fine. The repair guy told me to send it in and write a detail note explaining everything that happened. So I took everything apart and wrote up a long note that explains everything that happened.the expected repair time is like two to three weeks so I'm not sure what's going to happen!
I do have a question to you guys, say that I wired and soldered everything according to the instructions, have any of you ever heard of a company covering servos due to there faulty product? I highly doubt they will but man I just bought that 144$ torq tail servo like two weeks ago and have never used it. It's soo depressing.

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10-13-2017 06:58 PM  10 days agoPost 32
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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And regardless of what castle says or does I'm thinking I'm going with a receiver pack. My question is what's the difference between a 2s Lipo or the 6.6 life packs?
And say I buy two lipos , do they get plugged into my futaba 2008sb receiver or into the microbeast plus?
I've never ran it this way so it's new to me. Thanks guys

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10-13-2017 08:16 PM  10 days agoPost 33
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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They are two different animals. The 2s Lipo has a higher nominal voltage. 8.4 compared to 6.6V They also have different discharge characteristics and different charging methods. Which is "better" is a whole other discussion that has been discussed many times. I won't weigh in except to say I run 2s LIFE packs in everything. As far as powering the microbeast maybe someone else can chime in as I don't run them.

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10-14-2017 02:05 PM  9 days agoPost 34
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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a 20c lipo is the same output as a 20amp bec in terms of supporting the draw from the electronics. I'm not sure if the life are any different but are safer due to the non fire potential. You probably have to watch not to over discharge the lipo to below the rx voltage requirement of 3.5v. Brushless servos may make it last 5 flights no problem, coreless servos 4 flights and that's also depending on how hard your loading the servos is with flight style 3d or mild sport stunting.

Now, by reason of deduction the tail servo is attached to the side frames, the 12s lipo wires also where you zipped them. You should have the bec fastened to the heli and not dangling as well. As far as hv wires zipped and touching the cf frames I recommend putting a couple of layers of electrical tape between them and nitro fuel hose on the cf edges ca'd on (crazy glue). If your zip tie job squashed the wire covering a little it will run the risk of passing current without even making contact by inductance due to the high current involved.

I'd like to see what's going on under your primary ec connector wrap, you think maybe there isn't a cold solder joint somewhere, maybe?

I say this because I've been told to go rx pack and ditch the bec also, works fine on a nitro bird so why not, eliminated one more link in the chain.

you might have sent the esc in along with the bec just in case.

maybe? maybe no?

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10-14-2017 02:38 PM  9 days agoPost 35
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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Well would a cold soldering joint at my ec5s or where the BEC is soldered into the ESC cause a short and smoke the BEC and servos? Cause that's a possibility. I did just receive a new soldering gun and the helping hands jig and it works wonders.
Now Eengineer I hope you read this, not everyone can afford a kontronik ESC lol. I couldn't even imagine spending a Grand on one ESC. Plus I just bought a new Harley Electra glide.
It's hard managing two hobbies but I live in Maine so it's starting to snow already, time to put the bike up and tinker on the helis!

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10-14-2017 02:39 PM  9 days agoPost 36
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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And could someone tell me, I have a 2s pulse rec battery, does it get plugged in to the futaba r2008sb rec or the microbeast plus?

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10-14-2017 02:46 PM  9 days agoPost 37
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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And yes icanfly I sent the BEC and ESC into castle with everything still soldered on including the ec5s . I want them to look it over and see if it's something I did wrong(wiring, bad solder etc. ) or if it's a QC issue with a bad BEC. Plus I want them to check over the ESC , it was still beeping and no smoke came out of it so I'm pretty sure the ESC is fine but it doesn't hurt to have them look it over

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10-14-2017 05:12 PM  9 days agoPost 38
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Interesting.....how much did you spend on your Harley?

And insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.....

I tend to focus on one thing.....

Plus, Jive ESCs don't cost a grand.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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10-14-2017 06:13 PM  9 days agoPost 39
HeliOCD

rrVeteran

San Diego, CA

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Did you connect to just one 6s or two in series?
Definitely consider a 2S LiPo (8.4V) or LiFe (6.6V) instead given your HV servos. A 20C in the 1800mA range should be good for at least 4 flights worth and no soldering required.
+1
And regardless of what castle says or does I'm thinking I'm going with a receiver pack. My question is what's the difference between a 2s Lipo or the 6.6 life packs?
You will be happy with this setup.

Its all earth!

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10-15-2017 12:28 PM  8 days agoPost 40
youngbuck

rrNovice

Maine

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I spent 15k on my Harley, but like my father always told me, airplanes and Harley's are investments more then just purchases. I buy helis to work on and fly in my backyard but I understand that they don't hold up on resale value. A Cessna 185 or a super cub or a nice Harley that you take care of and put Alittle bit of money into over the next few years will retain its value if not appreciate in value.
It's all about decisions, I would love to have a kontronik 160 but considering I have a hard time with forward flight, I'm just not ready to drop that type of money. Maybe someday I'll own a diablo and a comet!

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Goblin with CC BEC magic smoke, need help
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