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HelicopterMain Discussion › A general question on "Nitro" engines.
10-07-2017 08:35 PM  16 days agoPost 1
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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My apologies if this belongs better in off topics, but its possibly relevant... So let's start with the question.

What should happen when you open the fuel tank while running?

Points of consideration.
This is a nitro car so there is just one tank, and big surprise I've been modding it like crazy. Some further info,
I was running last night after finalizing a mod. And when I was done I realized I'd put the fuel line through an area I couldn't reach to pinch it.

So I thought,
I'll open the gas tank let out the air pressure, it will die. Nope. So I take the body off kind of freaking out because at this point I've been idling almost 3 minutes (previously this had led to overheating). Temp check... Just hitting 280...ok. That's when I noticed the "feeder line" from the muffler was not attached. And by the looks of it, for a bit of the run (marks on it from the spur gear as it flopped around).

So yeah I know I'm being a cryptic about the mod. But it is the variable. So I'm trying to understand the behavior before I tell you what the mod is.

And the reason I put it here, it should work on all nitro engines.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-07-2017 08:48 PM  16 days agoPost 2
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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heliraptor10
What should happen when you open the fuel tank while running?
If tank is below carb, engine can and will die out at high speed. Specially given engine is tuned when under pressure.

If tank is equal or higher to carb, chances are it will continue running as yours did at iddle.

Tank does not have to run pressurized unless its below carburetor.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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10-07-2017 08:54 PM  16 days agoPost 3
jbjones

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Columbus, Mississippi

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heliraptor10
at this point I've been idling almost 3 minutes (previously this had led to overheating).
My guess is, your mixture at the low-end is pretty rich. Venturi vacuum is sufficient to draw fuel..perhaps a bit less than what your needle is set to, but you're rich enough that it effectively has a bit leaner mixture without pressure so it'll seem that it's running just fine at idle.

My boats are the same way. Extremely rich on the low-end. Matter of fact, most marine racing engines don't have a low-end needle at all. But as soon as it hits the water and a load is applied, they start using all of that fuel and it's not rich any longer!

What's the mod? Maybe I can use it on one of my race boats.

J. B. Jones

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10-07-2017 10:18 PM  16 days agoPost 4
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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The tank is below the carb.

I believe it is a vacuum running the the fuel. I'll try to get a video of it running at speed with no feeder line.

The mod is essentially this

Watch at YouTube

You make a tube with angled vents that goes on your muffler. It doesn't matter which way its pointed (up down back) because the pressure wants to escape straight so the hot air from the muffler pulls in cooler atmosphere, creating a vortex. A vortex that like the fire tornado is self accelerating because of the 2 different temperatures.

I call it Back Door Turbo.

Haven't thought of a way to test it,
Because nitro is so finicky, even if I demonstrated with and without people would say I had it tuned wrong.

I also took it a step further and enclosed the area around the attachment so that all of the fresh air it draws it pulls from the motor head.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-07-2017 10:43 PM  16 days agoPost 5
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Why not go one step further and make it water cooled

spending time, paying attention

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10-07-2017 10:55 PM  16 days agoPost 6
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Video coming!

Yes it continued running with the feeder tube disconnected.

At full throttle!

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-07-2017 10:56 PM  16 days agoPost 7
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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Oh boy ..... here we go again!

What would happen if you put a magnetic coil over that contraption??? Would it not help accelerate the vapor molecules???

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-07-2017 11:33 PM  16 days agoPost 8
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Watch at YouTube

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-07-2017 11:53 PM  16 days agoPost 9
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Another positive thing here is that the oil tends to condense on the inside of the "can". Then you can dump it after running. I figure that's oil that isn't going out on the model.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 02:30 AM  16 days agoPost 10
Doublah

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USA

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Sorry, but I do not think it is doing anything different.

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10-08-2017 03:01 AM  16 days agoPost 11
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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So any nitro can run without air being pumped into a sealed tank?

Because when I first got this thing it wouldn't stay running because the o ring that seals the tank was bad. A tiny leak and about halfway through the tank it would just keep dying because air pressure couldn't build up.

Did you see the part where I removed the air feed hose and continued driving it?

It is literally pulling the fuel,
That is not nothing.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 01:47 PM  15 days agoPost 12
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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As a broad generality, our engine suction feed using vacuum and venturi effects.

The magnitude of these effects is a function of the carburetor intake area. A very large carburetor will produce more power but will produce weak and possibly insufficient fuel draw when full open. When the engine is at idle, fuel vacuum is high and fuel demand is low - fueling issues are less obvious.

Before mufflers became popular, modelers would use crankcase pressure to pressurize the fuel tank. This allowed the most free flowing exhaust, largest intake, reasonable fuel draw and maximum power. It was also very loud.

When mufflers became popular someone notice they could use the pressure in the muffler while the engine was at higher power settings to pressurize the fuel tank. While some power was lost with the use of a muffler, some of that loss was regained buy using muffler pressure which then allowed enlarging the carburetor intake.

That leads us to where we are today. Most engine today are now designed with large intake carburetors that require muffler pressure to supply sufficient fuel at high power settings. At less than full open they will typically still draw sufficient fuel.

Some engines are supplied with slightly undersized carburetors that can be tuned to run without muffler pressure. All engines will lean to varying degrees when muffler pressure is removed but some can be returned to run without pressure. If you choose to leave off the muffler pressure line, over sized carburetors (ones that require muffler pressure to run properly) will have to be choked down to increase fuel draw.

Remember, muffler pressure is typically only about 1 to 3 psi at full throttle and 0 psi at idle.

Bill

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-08-2017 01:50 PM  15 days agoPost 13
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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It is literally pulling the fuel,
That is not nothing.
Open the carburetor above fully closed, stick your finger over the intake and turn the motor over. Do you feel the suction? There is a vacuum there and it will draw both air and fuel into the motor.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-08-2017 04:10 PM  15 days agoPost 14
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Thank you.

No one around me knew any of this. So to me this was a "proof" of it working. I get now, why it is not a proof.

I still believe it is. But it is difficult to prove on something this small.

It is a ridiculously simple concept so applying it to any engine will be easy.

My reasoning for believing it works is because in my work with vortices over the past year, I've discovered any heat has an accelerated action, even just warm water/evaporation.

In a vortex up is also in, so hot vortices tighten and speed (like a ballerina bringing her arms in) them selves up more.
All you nay sayers did you watch the fire tornado video?

Geez... Another idea I can't give away lol.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 04:13 PM  15 days agoPost 15
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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I can't believe no one liked my key start

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 04:32 PM  15 days agoPost 16
wjvail

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Meridian, Mississippi

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I'm confused by what you are suggesting...

Are you suggesting that by spinning the exhaust gasses as they leave the pipe, potentially accelerating these gases, efficiency and power is improved?

I'm not following. What is it that has been proven?

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-08-2017 06:54 PM  15 days agoPost 17
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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Nothing has been proven, because the vacuum existed already.

Yes spinning the gasses makes them exit faster.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 06:57 PM  15 days agoPost 18
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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I'm fairly confident on that.

Watch at YouTube

Here's proof the angle doesn't matter.

Spinning increases speed and distance... And fuel consumption... but you also get to lean it out a lot so it may even out in the end.

Yes I know that exhaust isn't fire. But this reaction happens as long as what's inside the vortex is hotter. The hotter the better.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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10-08-2017 07:19 PM  15 days agoPost 19
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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The only proof of anything I see is that you’re smoking some pretty good weed !!!

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-08-2017 08:06 PM  15 days agoPost 20
heliraptor10

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kokomo, in-US

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I think you need something to make your eyes work...

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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HelicopterMain Discussion › A general question on "Nitro" engines.
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