RunRyder RC
 8  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 901 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › trouble with backward inside loops
10-10-2017 06:01 PM  12 days agoPost 21
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nice one Pete. I've always used the '90-100 degrees servo movement from limit to limit' method as it works for any setup.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2017 11:03 PM  11 days agoPost 22
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The ball to center of the servo arm screw is 11.4mm. When I set up the beastx tail end points in menu E, the LED was solid blue indicating at least that the servo throw was not too small. When in neutral, the servo horn is 90 degrees to the linkage rod.
If your tail is not tracking correctly it will blow out doing fast tail first flight . Turn off HH and hover , if tail drifts adjust rod until drifting stops or is minimal. Turn HH back on and try tail slides with altitude to see if tail still blows out .

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 12:33 AM  11 days agoPost 23
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Or just try a larger tail blade.....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 01:18 PM  11 days agoPost 24
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If your tail is not tracking correctly it will blow out doing fast tail first flight . Turn off HH and hover , if tail drifts adjust rod until drifting stops or is minimal. Turn HH back on and try tail slides with altitude to see if tail still blows out .
I
Setting up in rate mode is fine if you are flying in rate mode (old school), but I don't know anyone who flys in rate mode anymore! Todays gyros don't care how you have set rate mode when they are in HH mode. I used to have an old JR tail gyro that actually did require minimal drift in rate mode but those days are gone.
Rate mode should be tossed out the window.

Center the pitch slider when servo is centered. All modern gyros function properly this way.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 01:46 PM  11 days agoPost 25
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Or just try a larger tail blade.....
He's already on 105's.
What are you confused about?

It would seem you have the tail setup fine, the only thing left is to either increase the gain or the head speed.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 02:43 PM  11 days agoPost 26
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What are you confused about?
The first quote says set up tail in rate mode and then adjust linkage to minimize drift when hovering.

The rest of the quotes say after servo has centered, adjust linkage on the bench so slider is centered.

These are obviously very different techniques that will definitely yield different results. To paraphrase Dr Phil, these are distinctions WITH significance.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 03:06 PM  11 days agoPost 27
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Setting the heli to hover in rate mode with no drift plays no part in the holding power of the tail so that is not the problem here.

TX gain numbers don't really mean anything, my Synergy N7 ran 94% but my Logo 550sx runs 40%, both helis use the same servo resolution. The N7 might look like it's at 94% gain in the TX but that number goes upto 150% so it's actually only running around 2/3 (66%) gain although that is still guessing.

Increase your gain 5 points at a time repeating the loop each time and report back?

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 03:12 PM  11 days agoPost 28
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yes, I will try that and report back.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 05:12 PM  11 days agoPost 29
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"He's already on 105's."

He did say that, didn't he. Lol....Missed that somehow

Plastic or CF blades?

I prefer CF because they are stiffer.

Am also assuming the tail geometry is set correctly.

What's the next size up from 105s? Could go up using plastics to save money......just as a test....and trim the tips down to say 110s for the test.

I got tired of fiddling around with endless "fine tuning" of the fbl and just went to 105s on my 600SXs and that did the trick for me.....also worked on my larger logos.

Just a thought to get pointed in the right direction via the overkill method.....lol

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 05:13 PM  11 days agoPost 30
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Different members offer different advice. Since you still have not reported the issue is resolved and my personal experience contradicts the previous advice, I offered my best recommendation.

It is up to you to try each piece of advice and report back to us.

I am surprised you have not noticed how many of us are telling you that rate mode is NOT important here.

One other thing to check is that there is no binding on the tail pushrod as it slides throught the pushrod guides at extreme travel limits, and that the guides are secured properly.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2017 05:20 PM  11 days agoPost 31
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"One other thing to check is that there is no binding on the tail pushrod as it slides throught the pushrod guides at extreme travel limits, and that the guides are secured properly."

An excellent suggestion, too.

And while checking, ensure the pushrod is not flexing either.

If flexing, the pitch at the tail under load will not be the same as on the bench. It will be less.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 04:52 PM  10 days agoPost 32
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I flew those when i was flying TT stuff and had tail issues with the 550 also. Most would use an 1100kv motor and LOTS of headspeed(2100~2300) on that machine and the tail would hold,.. barely. i run lower headspeeds normally, so I often have to speedup tails to stop blowouts like this. this was the most difficult machine i ever flew to get the tail to hold properly at the lower headspeeds. TT made a speedup pulley, 8 tooth instead of 9 tooth, that I think was sold for the older raptor 50. Same tail, so it fit right in the e550. I installed the speedup pulley and still had to run 105 tails, and it would still blow out sometimes at anything under 1900 on the headspeed. I think that sped it up from around 4.5 to 1 to something like 5.1 to 1 and it still wasn't enough unless you screamed the head. i also went up to 600 mains with the r50 boom and belt, which of course made the tail issue worse, where it was tolerable as a 550 with 105's and the speedup. I grew accustomed to flying it far less aggressively than other machines so the tail would stay put.

find the speedup pulley, and keep using the long tailblades, and if you still have blowouts there's really no option except to spin the head faster.

Gary Wright

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 07:32 PM  9 days agoPost 33
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

does anyone know where I can obtain a speed up pulley?

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 08:06 PM  9 days agoPost 34
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What is a speedup pulley?

Never heard of that.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 08:16 PM  9 days agoPost 35
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

EEngineer
What is a speedup pulley?
By deduction a tail pulley with less teeth.

*Edited for clarification

Click below

PV0676

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  BLOGAttn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 08:18 PM  9 days agoPost 36
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Never heard it called that......

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-12-2017 09:29 PM  9 days agoPost 37
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

found a few spots that list it,.. here are a couple of them

http://www.activepowersports.com/th...FxoC0pcQAvD_BwE

https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/thun...e_10783883.html

Gary Wright

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2017 08:38 AM  9 days agoPost 38
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

2100 rpm should be enough on 4.5 ratio with 105's. A Trex 550 is capable at 2400 rpm with only 3.85 ratio and 90mm tails.

60% of the time, it works every time!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2017 01:45 PM  9 days agoPost 39
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That may be right richard, depending on how he flies it. I'm only sharing what I found for my flying style, which normally includes a lot of sideways and backwards. i worked with that tail for a long time to make it what I would call acceptable. RPMS, gearing, tailblades from 85 up to 105,..etc.

Gary Wright

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-14-2017 07:08 PM  7 days agoPost 40
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

follow up

Here is the follow up. I set the rudder linkage so the slider was at midpoint and reset the endpoints in menu E-no difference. I will say that this way to set up the tail is a heck of alot easier than setting up in rate like I was doing and will probably continue to do it this way just because its so much easier. I then increased the gain to about 95-any higher and tail wag set in-still getting blow out. I then moved the ball on the tail servo one hole out and reset the endpoints again noting that the slider moves to max in both directions-this resulted in tail wag as well and required reducing the gain to 85 however tail blowout still occurred. I would like to try the speed up pulley but I'm not having any luck with with active power sports or alibaba-does anyone know of anyone else?

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 901 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › trouble with backward inside loops
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 8  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, October 22 - 6:26 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online