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HelicopterMain Discussion › trouble with backward inside loops
10-06-2017 01:37 AM  17 days agoPost 1
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

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I have a raptor e550 with beastx gyro and am having some problems with backward inside loops. I am able to complete about 95 percent of the loop and at the bottom of the loop the heli makes a 180 degree turn and starts flying forward instead of backward as it should. I know I am not adding any inadvertent tail rotor input since the same thing happens even if my left hand is off the stick. Any thoughts would be welcome.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

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10-06-2017 02:48 AM  17 days agoPost 2
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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Any chance you can post a quick video?

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10-06-2017 06:06 AM  17 days agoPost 3
artimus

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Buckley WA

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Sounds like your tail is blowing out.....check that you have your tail gain as high as it will go with out hunting. Is it a tourqe tube or belt tail? My old Raptors with a belt will do that if the belt isnt tight and skips teeth on the belt and that will blow the tail out.

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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10-06-2017 11:03 AM  17 days agoPost 4
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Either increase your head speed or increase your tail gain and make sure your not inputting excessive pitch at the bottom to 'catch' the heli.

Also double check the BeastX is actually in HH mode, the status LED should be blue once it's initialised?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-06-2017 01:32 PM  17 days agoPost 5
KevinB

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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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Agreed. Sounds like a blowout. Increase the tail gain if you can. If that doesn't do it, then increase the head speed OR decrease your max positive/negative collective a little.

I had a similar issue on my 550se, but it was during any fast backward move. As soon as you started pulling cyclic and collective at the same time, the tail would blow out. With the 600 blades, I think it was not only the tail running out of authority, but the power system didn't have any more to give and the head speed would bog a little as well. As an experiment, I replaced the Edge600se blades with VTX557 blades, and added 105 tail blades. The tail is now almost as good as my Logo700! Even at lower head speeds, my 550se's tail will not blow out now no matter what I'm doing to the poor heli.

KevinB

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10-06-2017 01:59 PM  17 days agoPost 6
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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++++ on tail blowing out...

You've likely been flying it at the limit of the tails holding ability and you break that limit when doing that loop.

I test my tails holding ability by flying sideways for a good distance (funnels in either direction work as well), left to right and then right to left as fast as I can go... this gives me a clear indication of how much authority the tail has in both directions and where adjustments can be made.

as already stated by others...
Check tail gain AND I'll add that you need to check max pitch settings on the tail (end points) and make sure youre getting the most without locking the tail linkages from the pitch links on the tail blade grips all the way to the tail servo horn...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-06-2017 02:28 PM  17 days agoPost 7
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

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thanks for all the replies. Just some additional info. I thought I was blowing the tail out as well so have already replaced the stock tail blades with 105mm blades. My tail gain on my DX7 is at 83-I still have some room to go higher. It has belt drive and the belt is tight. Beastx status light is blue after initialization. End point on tail are at max.
The tail does not step out on full power climb outs and the motor does not bog down at the bottom of the loop as far as I can tell.
I'll try increasing the gain on the DX7 from 83 and try to go easy on the pitch at the bottom of the loop and let you know what happens.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

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10-06-2017 03:55 PM  17 days agoPost 8
S.Favorite

rrVeteran

Brookville, OH

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Try holding the head, while manually trying to turn the tail rotor and see if it slips.

Citizen #27

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10-06-2017 04:40 PM  16 days agoPost 9
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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The tail does not step out on full power climb outs
thats not a good enough test IMHO... sideways flight will test the full capability of the tail, and will allow you to determine at what load the tail just cant cope with.

any studdering during sideways flight will tell you that the belt is slipping.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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10-06-2017 08:20 PM  16 days agoPost 10
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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If your tail is not tracking correctly it will blow out doing fast tail first flight . Turn off HH and hover , if tail drifts adjust rod until drifting stops or is minimal. Turn HH back on and try tail slides with altitude to see if tail still blows out .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-06-2017 09:23 PM  16 days agoPost 11
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Since I am unable to setup the tail in rate mode .I just add 3 degrees of right pitch to the tail blades with servo centered. Then do the endpoints. (FBL ikon)

spending time, paying attention

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10-06-2017 10:44 PM  16 days agoPost 12
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Your better off setting up in rate mode , set gain same amount negative and hover . This will let you know how close or how far off tail tracking is . Tracking makes a big difference when doing tail fist flying . It’s a piece of mind thing for me because it affects other settings in fbl units that help heli fly at its best and safe .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-07-2017 12:54 AM  16 days agoPost 13
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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Longer tail blades will help but also rob the motor of more power(will bog easier).

Give it a try, though.

Use 105's on my 600sx's instead of the stock 95's.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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10-09-2017 12:52 AM  14 days agoPost 14
motorrc

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canton ohio usa

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thanks for the help! I have not had a chance to try to fly with increased gain but I did hold the head and try to spin the tail. Absolutely no slippage. I also routinely set up the tail rotor linkage in rate mode and so drift has already been minimized. 105s are already in place.

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

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10-09-2017 12:17 PM  14 days agoPost 15
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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After touching base on setups ,seems you have done what is needed to fix issue . The only thing that is left is load on head or tail servo is weak or failing . Could be gyro unit itself but I would keep doing test on other components before looking into gyro being the cause . If gov is setup in esc that might be falling behind load and letting tail slow before it catches back up .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-10-2017 01:49 PM  13 days agoPost 16
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Equal travel on both sides of the tail pitch slider?

An accurate account of head speeds during normal flight and also during the loops would be beneficial.

A weak battery, weak cell, or poor wire/connection could fall on its face under high loads.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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10-10-2017 03:19 PM  13 days agoPost 17
motorrc

rrApprentice

canton ohio usa

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no actually I set it up with maximum travel on both sides which actually results in a little more travel away (ie to the right) from the heli. In other words, to minimize drift in rate mode, the pitch slider is slightly off center towards the heli. (slight right tail rotor input to counteract rotational torque of main blades spinning clockwise)

if it doesn't fit, make it fit.

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10-10-2017 04:05 PM  13 days agoPost 18
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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In other words, to minimize drift in rate mode, the pitch slider is slightly off center towards the heli. (slight right tail rotor input to counteract rotational torque of main blades spinning clockwise)
I assume this is with tail servo at 90 degrees? If so this is not ideal as you will have, as you say, more servo travel one way than the other and therefore different mechanical gains and resolution from left to right rudder.

Setting up in rate mode is fine if you are flying in rate mode (old school), but I don't know anyone who flys in rate mode anymore! Todays gyros don't care how you have set rate mode when they are in HH mode. I used to have an old JR tail gyro that actually did require minimal drift in rate mode but those days are gone.

IF your heli DOES have equal tail pitch slider throw WITH some counter torque pitch then by all means set the servo at 90 with some counter torque pitch, otherwise set the servo at 90 with zero tail pitch, set in HH mode and adjust gain till the pitch slider reaches it's limits with around 45 degrees of heli rotation on the bench, increase for FFF/FBF if no wagging occurs.

P.S. You want around 90-100 degrees total servo movement from limit to limit, this help you determine the optimal servo arm length.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-10-2017 04:29 PM  12 days agoPost 19
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Rate mode should be tossed out the window.

Center the pitch slider when servo is centered. All modern gyros function properly this way.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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10-10-2017 04:46 PM  12 days agoPost 20
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Cut and Paste

http://wiki.beastx.com/index.php/Ma..._Plus:Flying/en

To gain better tail gyro performance also check for correct servo horn length. If the tail gain in general is very low and the rudder tends to oscillate very easily move the linkage ball on the servo horn further inwards to the center. If on the other hand you have a very large amount of tail gain and the tail gyro still does not seem to be capable to hold the tail rotor in any flight condition, move the linkage ball on the servo horn further out from the center, to get faster response speed when the gyro needs to control the rudder. Also you may use different (larger) tail rotor blades or higher tail rotor speed to gain better holding force.

** * **

About 12mm from center of servo horn screw to ball link is a good starting point.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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HelicopterMain Discussion › trouble with backward inside loops
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