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HelicopterMain Discussion › Need some data on Throttle Jockey Pro Governor​*Help Pls*
09-14-2017 01:06 AM  69 days agoPost 21
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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Ratios

85T main gear divided by 10T pinion = 8.5 gear ratio

Desired head speed 2000rpms

8.5 x 2000 HS = 17000rpm engine speed <--this is the peak power of an OS 50 Hyper.

OS 50 Hyper engine redlines at 20k RPMS, anything past 17k rpms is wasting fuel. Right?

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09-14-2017 01:34 AM  69 days agoPost 22
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Set your limiter or gov to 17500 rpm so that it falls down to 17k under load. or 2050 ish - 2100.

for sport flying just run a head speed of 1900 to save a bit of fuel

spending time, paying attention

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09-14-2017 01:42 AM  69 days agoPost 23
InvertedDude

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USA

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ICUR1

Do u know the atv values to set...is it 65% or 85%?

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09-14-2017 03:03 AM  69 days agoPost 24
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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Man , you really are stubborn aren't you ????

You don't have $4 to spend in order to get an accurate reading vs guessing ???

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-14-2017 03:44 AM  69 days agoPost 25
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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it's been a while I believe 85% sounds right, still have mine in storage

spending time, paying attention

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09-14-2017 04:01 AM  69 days agoPost 26
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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JuanRodriguez

Man , you really are stubborn aren't you ????
You don't have $4 to spend in order to get an accurate reading vs guessing ???
Stubborn?

What do you mean by this? Buy a Heli tachometer? I am not following you?!

It is very likely we are not understanding each other. This is the problem with hearing people and deaf people. Our languages suffer from barrier issues.

Patience my friend! Time is golden!

I can't hear the rotor head speed, I only have eyes and touch sensation.

I can do the smart phone that Pistol Pete mention. I can go buy a tach and teach my wife how to read the head speed.

ICUR1-2, thank you..

By calculations of 85% meaning on obtaining the values from 8.5 gear ratio x 2100 HS = 17850 engine RPM. Max Revs only goes from 10k to 20.5k rpms.

20500 x .85% <---engine values for EPA/ATV setting in the radio = 17,425 engine RPMS

Now according the calculations, does that mean if I hit above 2100 HS, Rev Max will step in and lower the speed?

This is the question I am asking.

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09-14-2017 04:16 AM  69 days agoPost 27
InvertedDude

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USA

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Calculations

Radio settings values

Pos 0 Gov off
Pos 1 GovLimit at 1800 HS
Pos 2 GovLimit at 2100 HS

Gy611 gyro has been set manually to AVS and 60% gain without using the gain wire.

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09-14-2017 04:52 AM  69 days agoPost 28
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Back in the day I wrote a few of the Revmax instruction sets as they related to ATX radios and still have the app that will figure out the ATV/EPA settings for any HS/Gear ratio setups.

For your setup based on symmetrical throttle EPA's, 2000 rpm HS results in 70 for the EPA setting. For 1800 rpm it is 55.

For a Revmax I would flat line one of the Flight Modes and let the RevMax pull throttle out and you will be good to go.

There it is.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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09-14-2017 04:58 AM  69 days agoPost 29
InvertedDude

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USA

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TMoore

Is there an app you can buy to figure this head speed stuff? My numbers appears to be way off 75% for 1800HS and 85% for 2100HS.

My math comes from TJ pro's website. Would you kindly point me to this mechanic of calculations so I can figure it out?

EPA 70% for 2000HS and EPA 55% for 1800HS

My TX is spektrum DX6 Gen 3, don't know if this makes any difference?

I appreciate your help and time!

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09-14-2017 05:54 AM  69 days agoPost 30
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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It's going to vary by TX and pulse rate. The calculations aren't an exact science. I'm assuming you are running a Raptor 50 with the 8.5 to 1 gear ratio. On my ATX Radios the EPA setting for 2000 HS is: 83

I used a tach originally to setup this HS.

There was an APP that was available back in the day and on a spreadsheet that I have @17,000 on the engine for a 2000 rpm HS the EPA is 100. These numbers are just not exact.

With the App if your endpoint is set from 0 to 100% the number that it comes up with is 85. Before when I gave you the numbers on the ATX the endpoints go from -100 to +100.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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09-14-2017 01:05 PM  68 days agoPost 31
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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does that mean if I hit above 2100 HS, Rev Max will step in and lower the speed?
Yes it will try it's best to stop over speeding.

the written instructions for the tj max only include atv values for JR, Hitec and Futaba , but not spektrum .

get someone to help you tach the head speed it is the only way to be certain.

but 85% is where my dx7 was set to for 2000

http://www.modelavionics.com/pro_instructions.pdf

spending time, paying attention

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09-14-2017 03:18 PM  68 days agoPost 32
InvertedDude

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USA

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ICUR1-2

Yes DX7 is the same configuration except my is DSMX.

Should work just the same, I will get the head speed tach some how. I appreciate your input.

Will post results once I get it verified. Should save someone time and energy figuring out the needs. This is why I put post like these. You can run a 6 channel nitro with Gy611/9256 and TJ Rev Max.

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09-14-2017 04:24 PM  68 days agoPost 33
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich​- USA

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Have 2 of them still on use on Redline 53 engines, Rappy TITAN SE & X50. While my settings are from a Futaba, they are all in the low to mid 70% area. Using it as a 'limiter' and been tach confirmed that Head RPM is 2050 in th IU 2. 1900 in IU 1.
As mentioned, the only way to confirm is with a tach.

Good Luck !

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09-15-2017 03:31 AM  68 days agoPost 34
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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Inverted,

There are several people now suggesting what I have suggested from nearly the beginning....

Spend the $4 on the tach app for your phone and tach your head speed!! Simple as that . It has nothing to do with your hearing issue....

You hover the heli over the phone, land , read the results and adjust your RPM accordingly......

What is it that I'm missing??

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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09-15-2017 03:57 AM  68 days agoPost 35
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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JuanRodriguez

I get it now, it is a language barrier. I did not understand what you were implying at the time.

Now on to other matters:

I found out the Gy611 default to normal mode regardless of my manual settings. I had to get a Y harness to enable the AVS on default. I simply left the Rev Max on 85% and increased the manually increase the gain on the Gy611 to see 59% gain. Gy611 and Rev Max shares the same gear channel.

Works perfect....also tried the Titan X50 head on the Titan 50.

Whoa, the X50 rotor head is a home run! I am leaving it on the helicopter. I couldn't believe how stable it was and so much pop!

I had to richen up the engine in the mid range and high end. The Raptor 50 titan is a beast now!

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09-15-2017 02:33 PM  67 days agoPost 36
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Glad you got it sorted, You can find used TX's cheap nowadays

if you can live with less POP lower your atv to 80%

______________________________________________________________

JuanRodriguez
What is it that I'm missing??

sometimes people just want to get things going ballpark wise and make adjustments from there.

personally if I was deaf I would fly electric only
I have good hearing and still struggle with tuning

spending time, paying attention

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09-15-2017 04:09 PM  67 days agoPost 37
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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ICUR1-2

if you can live with less POP lower your atv to 80%
Now why would I do that? I like flips and rolls effortlessly!
personally if I was deaf I would fly electric only
I have good hearing and still struggle with tuning
I do have electric helicopters. I like the nitro and engine screaming! Funny thing, I tune hearing people's engines. They like how I set the motors for them.

My tuning is easy depending on pipe settings. 3 second (Pitch Off Hose) for mid range on ground and then tune high needle for enough power with temps. I shoot for 165 to 175F after a long power climb outs. This gives me additional 45F-35F degrees conservative rich for large loads.

The 3 second pitch rule depends on hovering, if the hover is stable and smooth non bouncing. If the helicopter has the light slow shakes...too rich....if helicopter has the tremor (fast) shakes (Vibs)...too lean.

Not complicated...

Make sure idle is high enough to not grab the clutch...this is crucial to perfect midrange hover....most people do not catch this process first.

Tuning 3 needle carbs can be a challenge, the process is the same....just more needles to figure out.

Yes, more info...LOL

Here is the important factor after following all the steps above. Nitro engine are designed for high speed and power with a short power band. Here is one of the issues...people tune for max power but don't address large loads over a long continuous loads. IT is best to tune for high power with temps as I described for a conservative large load cooling. After the engine is tuned for high speed continuous loads, you can back off throttle curves for other light flying modes....here is what people do....ohh the engine is so much cooler....I am gonna lean it up....*Mistake* Now, when they do the lean up because they are doing light flying loads....then switch to a large load....motor overheats or runs like crap....and they are on the needles again.

Perfect tuned engine is around 165 to 175 F on ground after long power full/collective climb outs....usually around 205 to 215 in the air.

IF you lower engine speeds for light flying modes, engine will be around 135f to 155F ....don't lean the motor unless you want to fly at light loads instead of reaching for max power.

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09-15-2017 11:25 PM  67 days agoPost 38
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Ok that helps .
I wasn't sure which flight mode to use to tune
From what I understand it should be tuned at it's highest speed then if I use idle 1instead of idle2
It will still be in tuned?

spending time, paying attention

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09-15-2017 11:30 PM  67 days agoPost 39
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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If you get a chance putting telemetry on a nitro helped me tons.
I get HS and temps ,rx voltage and pack voltages .I waited a long time to get it and love it.

spending time, paying attention

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09-16-2017 12:41 AM  67 days agoPost 40
InvertedDude

rrApprentice

USA

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ICUR1-2

First step tune normal mode hover.....the low needle affects everything.

I do 0,40,50,60,80 In normal mode...only for hovering and recovering the helicopter....nothing else.

After hover is stable as I described, you go to S2 mode and tune motor for max power with conservative rich....tic tocs are demanding or long full power/collective climb to 300 to 400 feet.

Once you land and temps are 165f to 175F you are pretty much done...of course you can lean it more...ur risking flame out.

S2 mode for mine is 100,85,80,85,100 I use Rev Max

S1 mode for mine is 86,74,66,74,86 for FF, light stuff and conserving fuel

Once your S2 engine mode is tuned you just flip to S1 for light duty and no tuning needed. If you want to do 3d, flip back to S2 mode.

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › Need some data on Throttle Jockey Pro Governor​*Help Pls*
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