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Scorpion Power ProModeler
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Considering Switch from Coleman Fuel to VP S.E.F Premix
07-08-2017 02:02 AM  19 days agoPost 1
jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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Tonight I wanted to get to the field with my gasser as it's been beautiful out all day. I've been meaning to pick up some more Coleman Fuel and mix a gallon as I am out but unfortunately it slipped my mind the last time we went shopping. I had a can of SEF 90 octane 40.1 premix (manufactured by VP Fuels) in my garage so I decided to give it a go. I was amazed after a few tweaks to my needles (I mixed the Coleman at 32.1) at how well this stuff runs. My engine was smoother than I have ever seen it and transitioned beautifully. When I was done and driving home with it in our SUV, my Wife also commented on how there was no smell of gasoline in the car. Once I got it home and in my hobby room I still could not detect any vapors. This is one of the main reasons I switched to Coleman in the first place. Does anyone know if the small engine fuel in the quart sized cans is somehow different from pump-gas? I've always thought it's interesting also how the cans are sealed up tight in the store and they don't need to be vented. I'm not sure what to buy now when I head back to the store for more fuel, but I'm strongly considering switching to the SEF.

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07-08-2017 03:42 AM  19 days agoPost 2
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Although SEF premix gasoline years ago was a BIG discussion here with some weird personalities touted a performance improvement because of the octane. That is and was not true BUT it can run very well. I just do not like the ratio of oil but that is just personal preference. I prefer 30 to 1.
If it works that is great!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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07-08-2017 03:48 AM  19 days agoPost 3
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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SEF works OK

I think Larry used to use that.

Recently I used VP powermaster fuel and later nicknamed it VP Powerless Master as it made less power than regular gas though I'll say it ran just as smooth and with less smell of course.

So the #1 factor is the smell, that's the premium price you pay to gain getting rid of the smell. As far as power is concerned, you'd have to test it back and forth on the same day between gas and SEF to see. Might be better than VP, I tested that and found its not as powerful and cost waaay more.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4091 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 267 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3173 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1360 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 123 flts

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07-11-2017 01:59 AM  16 days agoPost 4
jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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Raja, what ratio do you mix your pump gas at? I flew tonight and tried some full power climb outs (i only flew gentle figure 8's and hovering the other day when i first tested and adjusted) but my engine power would drop right out and almost die immediately if I didn't throttle back to save her and regain my rotor speed. Unfortunately I only had enough for one tank/flight tonight before I have to buy more fuel so I didn't do any tweaking at the field. I just finished with some easy flying around the field. I'm guessing I need to richen my high speed needle as I barely get above 1/3 throttle in my normal flight. Only when I go into significant pitch does my throttle curve drive up to 50% and up to full.

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07-11-2017 02:16 PM  16 days agoPost 5
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Ratio

32:1 for 87 octane, don't buy higher octane, its less power than regular.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4091 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 267 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3173 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1360 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 123 flts

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07-12-2017 01:08 AM  15 days agoPost 6
squirrel

Veteran

South Whitley, IN

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don't buy higher octane, its less power than regular.
Since when?

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07-12-2017 02:32 PM  15 days agoPost 7
RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Higher octane does not "produce" more power than lower octane...

It all has to do with the engines compression ratio, higher octane rating is simply a resistance to knock... since nearly all of our two stroke engines, modified or not, dont have a sufficiently high enough compression ratio, anything over 85 is a waste. So "regular" is more than good enough.

you dont need higher octane till you reach around 10:1 or more compression ratio (volume difference measured from TDC to top of exhaust port).

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/ga...tane-myths.html

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-12-2017 04:50 PM  15 days agoPost 8
jackp332

Key Veteran

Claremont, Nh USA

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The SEF I had was 90 octane. Is that a negative thing then?

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07-12-2017 10:30 PM  15 days agoPost 9
Pistol_Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Is that a negative thing then?
Yes, to your finances.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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07-13-2017 03:26 PM  14 days agoPost 10
squirrel

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South Whitley, IN

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The SEF I had was 90 octane. Is that a negative thing then?
No, that is a good thing. It means the fuel has less alcohol content.

Energy density is higher with the higher octane fuel because to achieve the higher octane rating the fuel contains less alcohol per unit of volume of "gas".

You do get more power out of the engine running higher octane. Running higher octane fuel in your vehicle is some times more cost effective depending upon price spread between the 87 and 93.

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07-14-2017 04:47 PM  13 days agoPost 11
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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Energy density is higher with the higher octane fuel because to achieve the higher octane rating the fuel contains less alcohol per unit of volume of "gas".
How do you explain that gas was available in different octanes before it was mandated that Ethanol was mixed with gas?
You do get more power out of the engine running higher octane. Running higher octane fuel in your vehicle is some times more cost effective depending upon price spread between the 87 and 93.
No you don't. Higher octane is more resistant to preignition, which allows an engine to be run at higher compression ratios without pinging. You don't get more power because the gas has more power, but because it allows the engine to run more boost, advance the timing, or have higher compression than with lower octane gas. On an engine that doesn't have computer controls that can adjust timing (or increase the boost from a turbo or supercharger), like the gas engines in a heli, you will not see ANY performance increase because all of those things are fixed and are set to run on low octane fuels.

The only reason you see more power out of your car when running higher octane fuels is because the engine can adjust those variables. Your heli, lawnmower etc can't do that.

Here's a link from Exxon. Notice that they don't say anywhere that higher octane has more "energy density". They only say that it is more resistant to knock.

https://www.exxon.com/en/octane-rating

Those are the guys who benefit from you buying higher octane more expensive gas. If they could say what you claim, they would.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-14-2017 07:49 PM  13 days agoPost 12
squirrel

Veteran

South Whitley, IN

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Here's a link from Exxon. Notice that they don't say anywhere that higher octane has more "energy density". They only say that it is more resistant to knock.
Your "google" education is not doing you any good...........

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07-14-2017 08:06 PM  13 days agoPost 13
RM3

Elite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Im willing to do a test this weekend to prove this on a prop stand (higher octane not equal more power)... any bets?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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07-14-2017 08:48 PM  13 days agoPost 14
JuanRodriguez

Elite Veteran

The Villages, Florida

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Sometimes a "google education" is better than none at all !!

RM3,

I would like to see you test this out.... but I suspect that some will continue to argue the results....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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07-14-2017 09:23 PM  13 days agoPost 15
squirrel

Veteran

South Whitley, IN

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Sometimes a "google education" is better than none at all !!
You sure do get what pay for with that.

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07-14-2017 10:05 PM  13 days agoPost 16
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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Your "google" education is not doing you any good...........
Ok chief. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Sorry that you find links not convincing, I have far more education than that provided by Google, but it's hard to hand you a book through the screen. Instead of just spouting your opinion, how about you give Google a shot and post some technical documents.

Or here's an even easier one for you. Answer the question I posted. What you wrote makes no sense, you have a serious issue with understanding the subject material based on what you've posted so far.

Either way, if you feel better putting 93, or 103 race gas in your low compression Zenoah, go for it. It won't harm anything, and placebo effect will make you feel great. I'll keep running 55 octane Coleman in mine and will make the exact same power as you, because even it doesn't preignite in our helis.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-15-2017 02:52 AM  12 days agoPost 17
squirrel

Veteran

South Whitley, IN

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I have far more education than that provided by Google,
You lacked the brain power to digest what I posted earlier, why would I waste my time explaining something to a google educated genius. You only know what some other know-nothing has posted then you feel you are an expert on the subject. All the forums are full of your kind...........

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07-15-2017 02:58 AM  12 days agoPost 18
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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So you can insult but not back up your statements. Ok. You're right. You've convinced me.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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07-15-2017 03:17 AM  12 days agoPost 19
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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RM3

Do the test.

I tested some time ago with my Spectra g and someone elses, two machines two tests each. I found on average I lost about 50 rpms head speed on 93 or 94 octane, vs 87 octane regular.

Let me know what you find with the prop.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 H280, 4091 flts
Raptor 90 H300, 267 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3173 flts
Whiplash V1 27 3DMax, 1360 flts
Whiplash V2 H300, 123 flts

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07-15-2017 04:20 AM  12 days agoPost 20
squirrel

Veteran

South Whitley, IN

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So you can insult but not back up your statements.
Do you really think I care if a forum know-it-all feels insulted.

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