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HelicopterMain Discussion › Are You Using High Voltage Capacitor Packs?
06-29-2017 03:57 PM  4 months agoPost 1
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Are you using a product like Castle Creations 011-0002-02 CC Cap Pack High Voltage Capacitor Packs? If you are, how are you mounting the device on your helicopter? http://www.castlecreations.com/en/c...ack-011-0002-02
The CC CapPack is useful in all brushless motor applications, where it serves to give just that little boost needed to overcome ripples in the battery voltage caused by hard acceleration or long battery wires. Ripple voltage is hard on an ESC - adding the CC CapPack can help reduce the load on the controller's on-board capacitors.

Helis:
CC CapPack is highly recommended for all 500 class and larger heli applications where Y harnesses and long wires can bleed voltage, and hard collective pulls can strain even the most powerful batteries.

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06-29-2017 04:18 PM  4 months agoPost 2
banshee rider

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n.e. illinois

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I have put a couple of capacitors in line on my Convergence Vtol p.o.s.
trying to solve the brown out going into limp home mode problem with it

but I havent used the castle units yet

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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06-29-2017 06:52 PM  4 months agoPost 3
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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06-29-2017 07:32 PM  4 months agoPost 4
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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How about a picture of your installation. The schematic is not easy to follow in the real world. But you know that already.

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06-29-2017 08:21 PM  4 months agoPost 5
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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I was very bored and just happened to have 3.14159265359 seconds available and found this video on youtube......

Watch at YouTube

Steve

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06-29-2017 08:36 PM  4 months agoPost 6
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I wouldn't use them if the ripple voltage was less than CC specified in their product description:
Note: All Castle controllers with data logging capabilities can report the ripple voltage they encounter during use. Ripple voltage peaks should always be less than 10% of the total pack voltage; the smaller the ripple voltage the better. If an application exhibits more than 10% ripple voltage under peak loads, the user should consider using higher discharge (C Rating) batteries, shorter wires, higher current connectors, better gearing or a smaller load.

Multiple CapPacks may be used in an application. They should all be installed as close to the ESC as possible.
Whats interesting is this part of the statement:
... the user should consider using higher discharge (C Rating) batteries, shorter wires, higher current connectors, better gearing or a smaller load.
Notice they don't say "... or add more CapPacks"

And, the schematic is pretty simple.
The two terminals on the CapPack are soldered to the battery input leads on the ESC.
"Pos" to red
"Neg" to black

But, if you don't need them, why bother?

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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06-29-2017 08:59 PM  4 months agoPost 7
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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OK let me rephrase once again. I would like to see a picture of one of these systems installed on a helicopter.

I install my ESCs for maximum cooling at the rear of the heli with the motor wires facing forward. This capacitor system would not be possible to install on my birds without it sticking way out behind the ESC.

Yes, ticedoff8, I agree start with measuring the ripple current. I am using large matching silicon wire on my heli. The length of the power wiring is about a foot. I did not extend the phased motor wiring. I am using 65-130c HV Bolt batteries, so I cannot improve on that.

I was just trying to see how others installed them on their birds. I am not even sure if I need this at the moment. I could install the capacitor system about 6 inches from the ESC, but they seem to want it closer.

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06-29-2017 09:34 PM  4 months agoPost 8
RAK402

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Alhambra, CA

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I installed two of these on the Velos, as the motor leads, especially on one set of packs was quite long. They also helped with the balance of the machine, as I was using smaller than spec'ed motors (600 as opposed to 700 sized motors).

My apologies, I have no photographs which show the installation of the Cap Packs.

Team KBDD/Compass Team Manger/Experience RC/Team JR Americas/WR Field Rep

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06-29-2017 10:48 PM  4 months agoPost 9
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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Here you go. Pictures of my HV160 with extended wires.

This ESC goes in an 800 size scale bird. Might be trickier to mount it in a 3D heli.

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06-29-2017 11:00 PM  4 months agoPost 10
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I would like to see a picture of one of these systems installed on a helicopter. Show the helicopter and the esc mounted. Please.

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06-30-2017 12:10 AM  4 months agoPost 11
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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I would re-think the use of that kind of "cap-pack".
I just don't see that a capacitor bank that small will have any effect in that purpose. It would be like p--sing on a forest fire.

You need a lot more ferads than those caps can deliver.

Besides - - what about the caps that are already on the ESC ?
If they're not enough then you need to add at least that much to even make a dent in the problem.
CC CapPack essentially negates the ripple caused by the addition of up to 8 inches of length to the battery wires.
Is that all ?

Notice the CC advertisement fails to give any specs. on the device.
What's so hard about publishing the total capacitance, voltage and ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) ?

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06-30-2017 02:33 AM  4 months agoPost 12
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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Is that all ?
It's enough for me. I needed to extend the wires, that was the solution. It serves a purpose.

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06-30-2017 03:20 AM  4 months agoPost 13
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Am I using Cap-Pac . . . no . . . just don't see the advantage.

Ok, 220uf x 4 @ 50VDC
I don't see the advantage of 105ºC vs the lower cost standard,
. . . unless there is so much ripple current that it heats up the caps.

So . . . figure it out,
TC=RC (RC time constant)
16" of #10 battery wire (2@8" = 0.001Ω/ft x 1.33ft = 0.00133Ω
CC notes that their Cap-Bank is good for 8" of wire equalivent
4ea 220 uf = 880uf = 0.00088 ferads
TC = 0.00133Ω x 0.00088 ferads = 0.00000117 seconds
This is the time it takes for the charge to bleed down to 63% of the starting voltage.

Using that as an approximation of switching frequency . . .
a 1/4 cycle period of 0.00000117 seconds = a riple frequency of 214KHz

I don't believe any ESC is running at that kind of switching frequency.

Lower frequency requires much more capacitance.

It's like p--sing on a forest fire.

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06-30-2017 04:15 AM  4 months agoPost 14
co_rotorhead

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Centennial, CO, USA

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It's like p--sing on a forest fire.
Maybe, but I'll pay $22 for a little peace of mind while flying my $3,000 model all day long.

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06-30-2017 07:31 AM  4 months agoPost 15
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Supercapacitor

A buddy of mine works at a company that makes supercapacitors for automotive and aerospace.
He gave me one to play with

Maybe it will smooth out those ripples.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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06-30-2017 01:44 PM  4 months agoPost 16
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Thank you for your comments AirWolf, much appreciated. That (and the lack of pictures from anyone using the device) has made up my mind to skip it on my 160amp ESC.

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06-30-2017 03:29 PM  4 months agoPost 17
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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A buddy of mine works at a company that makes supercapacitors for automotive and aerospace.
He gave me one to play with
Problem with "super caps" is they have a low voltage rating.

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