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HelicopterMain Discussion › Flybar/flybarless
06-24-2017 04:33 PM  5 months agoPost 21
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"mechanical engineering required to make them controllable."

Now to make them controllable we have:

2 - TX microprocessors
1 - ESC microprocessor w/In flight data recorder
1 - FBL microprocessor w/In flight data recorder
4 - Brushless servos, each with an ASIC microprocessor
1 - External SBEC microprocessor
2 - RX satellite microprocessors

For a total of 11 microprocessors, each having to be integrated so that they all work together.

And another microprocessor for charging the main batteries.

I'm surprised it works at all.

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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06-24-2017 07:05 PM  5 months agoPost 22
RabbitDFFD

rrNovice

Claremore, Oklahoma​- USA

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YEP ^^^^^^

To err is human . .but to really make things fubar in a millisecond all you need is a faulty microprocessor.

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06-25-2017 01:37 AM  5 months agoPost 23
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian,​Mississippi

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I own two X-Cell Tempest. They are nearly identical in most important ways- except one is FBL and the other Non-FBL. Each is a joy to fly but they don't fly the same. The FBL Tempest is a rocket ship and very pure in everything is does. Want to do 50 flips in a row? Pull back on the stick and work the collective. I feel like a heli god because it just sits there- flipping.

The Flybared Tempest has a very fluid feel. You have to fly it more but is very satisfying.

Crashing the Flybared heli is more work. No question. It is more work and more time to get back working perfectly. But it is more enjoyable work - in my opinion. It is mechanical work and you are looking at things and holding things. No laptops involved. Nothing is Bluetooth.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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06-25-2017 02:05 AM  5 months agoPost 24
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"I feel like a heli god because it just sits there- flipping."

Nice.....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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06-25-2017 03:17 AM  5 months agoPost 25
MobileRaptor

rrVeteran

Orange, Texas

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I entered into the hobby during the time of mechanical mixing. I could build a Raptor 50 in a day and complete the set-up in a another day and be in the air the second afternoon and this is when I was a beginner.

I documented all my linkage rod lengths and after a crash it was pretty easy to get set back up.

My first high end helicopter was a Miniature Aircraft 99 spec SE. This took a week to build and another week to fully set up which included several test flights.

The mechanical mixing had several undesirable traits that had to be worked out via adjustment to the mechanics and radio tuning and mixing. A change of a few grams in the fly bar paddles would net you a completely different flying helicopter.

The higher end the helicopter the more possible calibrations and fine tuning.

As servos improved we moved to a the next generation of helicopter. The CCPM. So now the servos drive the swash plate directly. This brought forth new helicopters such as the Ergo CCPM and the Miniature Aircraft Fury. It also brought forth a new generation of radios to operate the CCPM'S. The engines got bigger and more powerful and the result was a new style of Helicopter flying called 3D

The next great boom to rc helicopters was electronics, FM radio's are a thing of the past, Frequency pins are no longer needed.

Electric powered helicopters are starting to hit the market battery start getting better and better.

Then flybarless systems come to be.

So, Are we any better off? Yes! The Radios alone is a massive step forward. Electric Helicopters are much less noisy and require less maintenance.

As far as flybarless verses fly bar. Fly bar feels more natural. but if you never flue an fly bar helicopter you would know the difference. All the manufactures are building flybarless and the flybar helicopters are fading into the sunset.

And. We now have drones which take no skill to fly.

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06-25-2017 03:34 AM  5 months agoPost 26
Aswick3

rrNovice

Ct 06710

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That's a very good point you add.
I had a hell of a time tuning and setting up the first flybar heli I got. But what I've learned thru trial and error, all your input here and from others I've gained some knowledge and it's not such a confusion now as it was when I said one day , "gee I think I'm gonna buy a helicopter and go fly!"
Yeahh, no lol

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06-25-2017 04:08 AM  5 months agoPost 27
EEngineer

rrProfessor

TX

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"The Radios alone is a massive step forward."

That freq. pins aren't needed, being "shot down" is a thing of the past....

Logo 600SXs, 800XX, TDR IIs

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06-25-2017 05:03 AM  5 months agoPost 28
grimthenoble

rrApprentice

Ketchikan, Alaska

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I enjoyed all the old technology better, felt like you accomplished something when you got it to fly nice. now its all lazer smooth and well kind of boring. just like drones.. borning to fly, if you enjoy videos and pictures then they are for you. the wrenching aspect of rc helicopters/drones is long gone. I still own 2 flybar nitro helis and will never sell them. so much fun keeping them tuned up and flying great! who knows what the hobby will turn into in the future but it will be interesting to see.

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06-25-2017 05:30 PM  5 months agoPost 29
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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That freq. pins aren't needed, being "shot down" is a thing of the past....

You can still get locks outs/ frame hits on 2.4 all be it not as common as on 35meg where it would take you out of the sky..

All The Best

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06-26-2017 12:07 PM  5 months agoPost 30
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Spoken like a person who has never built or flown a multi-rotor. I own and fly them all. Planes, gliders, FBL, FB, 4rotor, 6rotor, 8rotor. Gas, glow, electric, you name it. Each has it's own reason for being in my hangar. I don't consider one form of flight better than any other.
MobilRaptor -- We now have drones which take no skill to fly.

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06-26-2017 12:12 PM  5 months agoPost 31
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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He means far less skill than a heli particularly a flybarred heli. Most have self level mode and if flying FPV you only need basic computer gaming skills.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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06-26-2017 02:28 PM  5 months agoPost 32
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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I remember this site being more active in the Flybar days.

spending time, paying attention

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06-29-2017 06:42 AM  4 months agoPost 33
Jamovich

rrVeteran

Bangalore, India

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I fly hirobos almost exclusively (except for a goblin 630 that I recently got) and I converted them all to FBL.

True FB is more natural and the setup more mechanically interesting but the rescue switch that comes with FBL outweighs all that for me....I can push myself far more than I ever could.

Also because of where I live spare parts are hard to get due to a third world mentality to the hobby...its considered a threat (its hard to clear parts through customs without playing with the paperwork), therefore the rescue switch has more than made up for its cost many times over so far

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06-29-2017 02:40 PM  4 months agoPost 34
banshee rider

rrApprentice

n.e. illinois

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I prefer FBL over FB
For me its more versatile than FB

I can set my Heli up to fly more "NATURAL" like a FB
I can also set it to fly "ROBOTIC" like a extreme 3D hummingbird on Meth

once I have it all set up in the FBL unit all I have to do is flick a switch

And I can fly whichever "FEEL" I want at that time

I dont have to change paddles or move weights or change the length of the
flybar or the ratio of the washout arms or anything

I just flick a switch

With my Futaba 14SG and the Futaba CGY 750 FBL unit
I can have 4 different "FEELS" with again just a flick of a switch

With a more expensive TX. I could have 6 to 10 different "FEELS"

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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06-29-2017 03:03 PM  4 months agoPost 35
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Although I haven't used the Futaba FBL units, I have never found any settings on any of the ones I've used that feel like a flybar heli!

I think the trend with flybar vs FBL is that it depends how long you were flybarred before you went FBL. I was about 8 years flybarred so that is what I prefer. There are things I prefer about FBL though like autos and increased flight time.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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06-29-2017 03:49 PM  4 months agoPost 36
banshee rider

rrApprentice

n.e. illinois

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Richardmid1
Although I haven't used the Futaba FBL units, I have never found any settings on any of the ones I've used that feel like a flybar heli!
Dont run out and buy one on my opinion
feel is a very subjective thing everybody likes something different
I dont know if the cgy750 will replicate what you like or not

I myself like something in between robotic and old style flybar feel

I have 2 Hirobo Freya's one with a FB one with a FBL
my analogy between the 2 is

the FB is like a old Cadillac that floats around rides nice but the steering is a little loose the brakes are a little weak a nice car but
not what I prefer

I would rather have a new Camaro but I dont want a Formula 1 car

An airplane analogy would be comparing a 1/4 scale Cub to a Extra 300
the Extra does exactly what you tell it to do no more no less (fbl)
the Cub does what you tell it to do but in a sluggish wallowing manner (fb)

Also I have been flying heli's since about 1987 so about 25 years of FB
the last 3 of FBL

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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06-29-2017 05:09 PM  4 months agoPost 37
gologo

rrKey Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

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An airplane analogy would be comparing a 1/4 scale Cub to a Extra 300
the Extra does exactly what you tell it to do no more no less (fbl)
the Cub does what you tell it to do but in a sluggish wallowing manner (fb)

Also I have been flying heli's since about 1987 so about 25 years of FB
the last 3 of FBL
Good analogy, and I can still use that when going between higher rpm
and LHS stuff, although LHS flying still can have a very precise feel
to it!

I too, flew FB for aprox 16yrs before trying FBL (Nobar) for the first
time. Could never go back, love the simplicity of the head, transport
is much nicer w/o trying to ram the flybar into something all the
time, just don't miss it.

BUT, w. that said, FB was all I knew for most of those 16yrs, and
wouldn't trade those memories for nothing. With a tiny tiny exception, ALL helis were FB, from nothing me,all the way to very
top pilots.....and those helis flew GREAT!

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