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HelicopterMain Discussion › FAA overturned on Registration
05-29-2017 06:48 PM  28 days agoPost 121
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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What about your pocket protector?

Lost mine over the years.....

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05-29-2017 08:02 PM  28 days agoPost 122
gmcullan

Key Veteran

Southbridge, MA

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As a senior engineer, yes, I not only had a pocket protector but also a matching pen/pencil set. My safety glasses, when I had to go into the shop were black horn-rim with side shields. Dating myself for sure!

Gerry Cullan,
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05-29-2017 11:15 PM  28 days agoPost 123
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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Side shields....lol

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05-30-2017 10:49 PM  27 days agoPost 124
Chris Bergen

Elite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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I never said I agreed with or feel that registration is helpful in any way. In fact, I am very much against it, for the reasons that the FAA instituted it in the first place.

I'm simply informing that DJI was and is NOT the problem here, per the post that you put up. In fact, DJI has been very proactive to try and prevent some of the issues that the FAA has concerns with, namely flying in controlled airspace.

As is usual, the problem is education (or lack thereof).. I think this is where AMA really missed the boat, by not reaching out much more strenuously to all these "hobbyist" drone flyers, though that may not have helped much anyway.

We are MOSTLY commercial use manufacturing, but if someone wants one of our hobby birds, built and tet flown, we can accommodate.

Slide rules... Funny!!

Chris D. Bergen

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05-30-2017 11:32 PM  27 days agoPost 125
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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"AMA really missed the boat, by not reaching out much more strenuously to all these "hobbyist" drone flyers"

I think the AMA did what they could with regards to AMA members that fly drones and other forms of flying "models"...with regards to safety education.

Having said that, I think the AMA did an absolutely p*ss poor job....at best...with their dealing with the FAA.....if not outright lying to their members as to what they were doing.

Absolutely pathetic on their part.

In addition, their PR job with the AMA membership was/is even worse.

As proven when Mr. James A. Taylor successfully prevailed in the ruling of the DC Court of Appeals with regards to the registration of model aircraft with the FAA.

And then.....then....the AMA's PR bozo Chad B. is "authorized" by the CURRENT AMA hierarchy to take credit for Mr. Taylor's efforts....and when informed of this(by myself and others)....has the gall to say the AMA did not take credit...and in the next paragraph claim that if it wasn't for the AMA, Mr. Taylor would NOT have prevailed.

Absolute total BS.

Such BS leads one to believe that the CURRENT AMA hierarchy is actually in favor of the FAA's overstepping their bounds by ignoring and creating their own FEDERAL Law....which is unconstitutional.

In addition, the ONLY experience the FAA administrator and his direct underlings have.....is to bundle PAC money for the democratic party....in order to be rewarded by being political appointees of something.

Corruption at best.....at the highest level.

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05-31-2017 01:18 PM  26 days agoPost 126
rpat

Elite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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I for one are always leery of organizations that have the kind of money that the AMA has at their disposal. We are not here because of the AMA, the AMA is here because of US. I still wonder what kind of payola went on in this deal.

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05-31-2017 04:01 PM  26 days agoPost 127
EEngineer

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TX

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"payola"

That's the term I was looking for.....

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05-31-2017 04:02 PM  26 days agoPost 128
EEngineer

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TX

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I wonder what drivel on this subject will appear in Model Aviation in a few months....

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05-31-2017 09:04 PM  26 days agoPost 129
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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It will be "fake news" , I can assure you .....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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05-31-2017 09:43 PM  26 days agoPost 130
EEngineer

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TX

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It will be "Chadized" for sure...

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06-01-2017 07:05 AM  26 days agoPost 131
steve9534

Key Veteran

yakima, wa.

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FAA

I registered with the FAA, and honestly, it wasn't that burdensome or expensive. Chris is right in that this has been a long time coming. 30 years ago my uncle was building Saito 300 and Zenoah G62 powered custom helis for movie and video work, and developed a GPS stabilizer that would allow the model to fly independently to a point and stay there. Said model could be rotary or fixed wing. At the time, there were some individuals who wanted to buy from him, and while they wouldn't state their intended purpose, it was clear enough they had no good purpose in mind. The thought that drones might be used as a cheap alternative to a guided missile is not a new one. Whether the aircraft is built by the person operating it has nothing do with whether or not it constitutes a danger and as a practical matter is a meaningless distinction. Who of you builds his own radio? How many own ARF models? Same goes for VLOS. I am not even sure why Terry thinks that my watching my aircraft as I use it to bomb a crowded stadium, or whatever other scenario one wants to dream up, distinguishes it from the person who is using FPV or GPS. For that matter, who is going to guarantee that all hobbyists who build and fly R/C models will never use them for other, less pure, purposes? Whatever the use, no sane observer can evade the danger of R/C models being used for mischevious and even deadly purposes. While the FAA may be inept, it is responding to a threat that is real. If I were an AMA official I would probably see the FAA registration as being one of the least burdensome alternatives at governmental control that face us, and might decide not to fight it either. The personal attacks against people who happen to disagree are out of place and do nothing to further our cause. FWIW, I live in the middle of nowhere. I fly my helicopters out of my back yard and 30% airplanes off of the local runway with permission from the owner. I'm not a shill for anyone, and am sponsored by no one.

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06-01-2017 11:28 AM  25 days agoPost 132
Mike0251

Veteran

Hills of the Blue Ridge VA

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While the FAA is responding to a potential threat..that threat does not come from law abiding citizens and hobbyists like us. It comes from individuals or groups that could care less about any laws on the books. Same for guns used by criminals. It's all government control of more facets of everyone's lives that does NOTHING in the end to stop the bad guys. Never has, and never will. It just nibbles away at decent law abiding folks freedoms and liberties..or worse, turns you the law abiding person into a criminal overnight. Just more crapola from the bureaucrats that want you to think they can protect you. LMAO

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06-01-2017 12:46 PM  25 days agoPost 133
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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With a law making a given activity illegal, it is much easier to prosecute the guys that want to harm others. With our home grown Islamic terrorists growing up here, it would be nice to track some of that. Quite frankly, I don't know you, and I don't know what you are capable of.

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06-01-2017 01:24 PM  25 days agoPost 134
rpat

Elite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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Way to go Mike0251 THAT'S IT IN A NUT SHELL. These guys think that they have nothing to hide are missing the point. Gun control is a prime example of what is going on in this country. Just look at Chicago, some of the toughest gun control in the USA and the murder rate is through the roof.....so much for registering your guns...........I call BS.

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06-01-2017 02:59 PM  25 days agoPost 135
gt48

Heliman

Kingston, Ontario - Canada

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Whether the aircraft is built by the person operating it has nothing do with whether or not it constitutes a danger and as a practical matter is a meaningless distinction.
I disagree. It's not the best distinction but it's not meaningless. As a statistician if I had to come up with a prediction rule to predict whether or not an rc aircraft would be used for an illegal purpose two of the best predictors would likely be "Type of Aircraft" and "Built by Operator/Not Built by Operator". Your statement is factual on a logical level, but in a vacuum of other pertinent information.
Same goes for VLOS. I am not even sure why Terry thinks that my watching my aircraft as I use it to bomb a crowded stadium, or whatever other scenario one wants to dream up, distinguishes it from the person who is using FPV or GPS. For that matter, who is going to guarantee that all hobbyists who build and fly R/C models will never use them for other, less pure, purposes?
Let's say you could carry out this operation using VLOS from 1000ft away. You would almost certainly have to be standing out in the open in a public area staring at the stadium with a transmitter in your hand. Using fpv/gps you can be miles away in a room. This is a pretty obvious distinction.

Guarantee? Obviously a rhetorical question whose answer is no one. But this answer has no implications.

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06-01-2017 03:32 PM  25 days agoPost 136
Danny Calderone

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South Jersey

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The bottom line is, no matter how many rules or laws are imparted on the people, only the honest, well intentioned citizens will follow them. A criminal will fear no law until the consequence becomes a sufficient deterrent. The answer (just like with gun control) is basic, common sense, minimalistic law with drastic consequence for malicious intent and action. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

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06-01-2017 04:02 PM  25 days agoPost 137
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Same goes for VLOS. I am not even sure why Terry thinks that my watching my aircraft as I use it to bomb a crowded stadium, or whatever other scenario one wants to dream up, distinguishes it from the person who is using FPV or GPS. For that matter, who is going to guarantee that all hobbyists who build and fly R/C models will never use them for other, less pure, purposes? Whatever the use, no sane observer can evade the danger of R/C models being used for mischevious and even deadly purposes. While the FAA may be inept, it is responding to a threat that is real.
If you have to fly VLOS and there is no automation I can guarantee that once the aircraft leaves your sight you are no longer in control. It's just that simple. If you can't see it you can't fly it. That's not the case with FPV and a stabilized multirotor. That's why I say that VLOS skills are what separates us from the Drone Weenies. Flying FPV is trivial. I race quads, I'm not great at it, it's fun but the LOS stuff is what I enjoy the most. IMHO, it is the controlled airspace, proximity to the pilot and the fact that we actually have to fly this stuff is what separates us from the Drone Weenies.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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06-01-2017 04:48 PM  25 days agoPost 138
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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"I registered with the FAA, and honestly, it wasn't that burdensome or expensive."

That's not the point.....and the DC Court of Appeals made that clear....

"With a law making a given activity illegal, it is much easier to prosecute the guys that want to harm others."

Yes, that thinking was prevalent in certain parts of Europe in the 30's....

"30 years ago my uncle was building Saito 300 and Zenoah G62 powered custom helis for movie and video work"

Good for him....but, 30 years ago he would have been lucky to get a GPS rx lock for 3 hours in a 24 hour period...as the GPS constellation was incomplete...

"While the FAA may be inept"

May be? When led by individuals whose only expertise is bundling PAC money for corrupt politicians in return for becoming appointees...such as the FAA...they will always be inept.

And, the RC community is an easy target for them to harass to demonstrate how inept they are...

The most recent edition of Model Aviation shows "stats" about the drone "near miss" data and how it bogus to a certain extent.

"FAA registration as being one of the least burdensome alternatives at governmental control that face us"...

No, the least burdensome is for the FAA to follow the LAW....as ruled on by the DC Court of Appeals...which exempts the hobbyist from such "rules".

Everyone that flys RC can come up with some scenario in which RC can be used in a nefarious manner...but that's not the issue.

When the latest terror technique seems to be to take a vehicle....of almost any type...and plow through crowds, drones are of the least worry in comparison...

"A criminal will fear no law until the consequence becomes a sufficient deterrent."

Not true at all....most don't give a crap about ANY consequences.

"I don't know why this is so hard to understand."

It's not that it's hard to understand....it's that some don't agree with your point of view....why is that so hard for you to understand?....Like "gun control", etc...etc...

Everyone know that you are well meaning, but....

And it's also not you vs Terry....but us vs. encroachment by inept govt. officials that care not one iota about anything but the power that they can wield....

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06-02-2017 11:39 AM  24 days agoPost 139
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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Mission Accomplished - NOT

You guys act like this is the final, final decision. I would not celebrate too soon.

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06-02-2017 01:25 PM  24 days agoPost 140
conbones

Heliman

panama city beach FL

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yes this is true liberals still plague this country and until they are eradicated we will never be free of tyrants.

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