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HelicopterLow Head Speed Helicopters › Looking for some ideas.
04-21-2017 11:25 PM  5 months agoPost 1
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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Hello

I'm not sure this fits strictly in the LHS bracket but I want an electric 700 for at least 10 minute if not 15 minute flights. I was thinking around 1400 - 1600 rpm. I want to use Kontronik motor and ESC and it must be single pack, 6 or 7s. I'm not sure if as well as a smaller pinion I should also use a smaller motor such as a Pyro 650 or just go for a 700 or 750.

I have put this post on the Mikado forum;

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t818059p1/

The other model I am considering is the Henseleit TDF.

I am constantly frustrated by the expectation of 4 minute flights and the ever increasing head speeds people run, and the assumption the helis won't fly properly below 2000rpm.

Your expertise and opinions welcome.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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04-21-2017 11:31 PM  5 months agoPost 2
DemetriusUSN

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Virginia Beach, Va USA

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This is my setup and I love it :
Logo 600se v2
HKIII 4035-560kv motor
Edge 100amp esc
12t pinion, 106 main gear
Vbar Neo
7s.....10 minutes of flying and I love it. Max heads peed is around 1400 at 95%......

Minicopter Diabolo 700,Minicopter 550,Compass 6hvu, Devil 380

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04-21-2017 11:42 PM  5 months agoPost 3
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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I assume the head behaves well at those rpms with the stock damping. I usually put the softest damping possible in my helicopters.

I also wonder what changes you could make to stretch the 10 minutes out to 15?

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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04-21-2017 11:48 PM  5 months agoPost 4
DemetriusUSN

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Virginia Beach, Va USA

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Maybe go 8s to extend the flight but it handles very nice for me.

Minicopter Diabolo 700,Minicopter 550,Compass 6hvu, Devil 380

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04-22-2017 03:24 AM  5 months agoPost 5
gologo

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Sedalia, Mo USA

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On one of my Logo 600se's, have 500kv Hyperion w 11t, regularly run it w.
a couple different 6s......one a 5000 which lets me do around 10-11m and
a Thor 5500, which seems could go 13-14m easy. Always stop around 12 and
have some left, usually around 30% left. Flys great and very scale-like
when I want. AND will do about any of your basic aeros, not much to do tic
tocs/rainbows (in my hands anyway), but about anything else that goes w.
big air-type flying.

And a Goblin700, Quantum 500kv w. 21t and almost exclusively fly 6s in it.
All around super sweet flyer.....almost 12m w. it also w. the 5500 pack.
I am constantly frustrated by the expectation of 4 minute flights and the ever increasing head speeds people run, and the assumption the helis won't fly properly below 2000rpm.
AMEN to that!! The more people want their rotors to scream, the more I
enjoy the LHS stuff! After realizing how capable LHS is (thanks Gary W.),
and how scale-like it flys/feels, I am probably done w. high HS setups.

10s is as high as I have ran for the last several yrs, and doing less and
less of that.

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04-22-2017 08:06 AM  5 months agoPost 6
MDSCUSTOMS

rrApprentice

North Wales, U.K.

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Most Heli's will fly well on below 2000 rpm's, go back 40 yrs or so when the only real power was IC Engines. A lot of those Heli's flew well on 1000 rpm's and even less in some cases bearing in mind we were also using wooden blades. Even the newer material blades you used to buy back then had a recommended rpm limit on them. (The Len Mount blades on my Bell 222 UT had a 1700 rpm limit sticker on the packet, I am still well below that limit)

I think the only reason the rpm's have gone up is due to the power of the newer electric motors and the gearing used for same to get that power increase.

The question you have to ask yourself is do you really need all that power for such a short time especially if you don't do the sort of flying that demands it. That power can be better used to giving you the longer flight times and so, YES, you can change the the pinion ratios and enjoy longer flight times. I prefer scale flying but 4 min flight times are hardly worth it. (Not even worth the drive to the flying field for that, I'd burn more fuel in the car) I'm still running IC engines and am happy with 15 to 20 mins on a tank of fuel, land, refuel and up again

Not the first time I've seen this question asked and I think a lot of people are now getting wise to better flight times. 3D flying might be fun but longer flight times are even better.

This little baby is 41 yrs old now and has just been fully restored, engine is an HB25 nitro (The original engine) - headspeed is around 1000 rpm and it flies very well. It's also fixed pitch so compare that to a CP machine.

Mark

I'm only here coz I'm not all there !!

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04-22-2017 11:24 AM  5 months agoPost 7
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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It's funny what a difference slight changes can make to endurance. I have two helicopters of almost identical setup. Both powered by OS 105HZ-R with 700ml fuel capacity. I fly the same with both machines.

Hirobo D3v2 8.27/1 ratio at 1500-1600rpm gives 10 minutes to empty.

Hirobo Freya 7.92/1 ratio at 1450-1550rpm gives 15 minutes to empty.

I'm very tempted to change the main gear and clutch/pinion on the D3 to make it more economical although I really like the power as is.

With electric for me it is hard to know what combination of attributes will reliably give the best results which is why I made this post. There seems to be nothing published particularly by the manufacturers. I find this surprising and frustrating considering most people are not flying hard core 3d.

So what are the setup rules of thumb for more flight time?

Higher ratio/smaller pinion, yes.

Bigger motor or smaller motor, not sure? ie Pyro 650, 700, 750?

Lower cell count, I believe so??

If lower cell count then higher rating ESC, I also believe so??

Target head speed well below 1700rpm, a definite yes.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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04-22-2017 08:07 PM  5 months agoPost 8
gwright

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Champaign Il

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making that amount of time is easy, but it depends on the type flying you want. Low KV, deep geering and smaller 12s packs.
My synergy E5 stretched to 700 goes from 12 up to 17 minutes depending on how much time is spent in "high rpm" (1450), or low rpm(1150). Fully aerobatic in each, slow and smooth though,.. don't expect what folks refer to as "pop". There's a video of a 17 minute flight in this form, "lhs E5 on windy day".

Gary Wright

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04-25-2017 05:45 PM  5 months agoPost 9
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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I can't resist this thread. I have just completed a large scale trainer built from an MD-8 helicopter kit. This is no featherweight as it tips the scales at 15 pounds fully loaded with batteries. I am using Rotor Tech 810 Industrial Class blades turning from 850 to 975rpm, MD triple blade tail with 115mm Zeal blades, 10.08:1 gearing, 295kv KDE Direct motor, 2 Pulse 6s 5000mAH flight batteries, 1 Pulse 2s 5000mAH electronics battery, CC160HV w/fan, CC BEC Pro, Bavarian Demon 3S gyro, and Spektrum remotes for radio system. So far, I have pushed it to nearly 16 minutes with some aerobatics but mostly doing circuits around the club field. The Castle log only shows 2.1A drawn from the pack so I am sure that it could nearly be doubled but that would be pushing it hard. I would safely say that 25 minutes could be obtained and that is at speeds around the 40 to 60mph range, not hovering. Here is the log of the nearly 16 minute run. Take care.

Don

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04-25-2017 11:09 PM  5 months agoPost 10
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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Looks great Keygrigger. I'm sure none of us started this hobby looking for 4-6 minute flights. I actually don't get bored flying my GSR260Z for up to 30 minutes at a time. It also has the same Rotortechs. They are beautiful rotor blades.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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04-28-2017 01:17 PM  5 months agoPost 11
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Don,

Nice setup! I noticed your nowhere near hitting 100% throttle even at the end of a flight so you could run 10s on that thing and extend the flight time even further! I used 2x 5s 8000mah packs in my Trex 800 Pro and gained nearly 50% more flight time than 2x 6s 5800mah!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-28-2017 11:43 PM  5 months agoPost 12
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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I'm not sure why I didn't do this a few years ago.

I set up my JR Vibe NEX E8 up to fly at around 60-70% governed with my Jive 80HV because thats what I always thought you had to fly at to avoud killing the ESC. I'm not sure the actual rpm but I could only get about 7 minutes which to me is quite unacceptable. The helicopter is the MB-351 3 blade version powered by a Pyro 700-45. Unfortunately you can't change the pinion size, you can only choose a lower Kv motor. I am running it on 12s as I believed this would be the most efficient configuration drawing the least current.

After a lot of RunRyder reading I decided a few days ago to reduce the governed throttle to 25% and have transformed the aircraft forever. Previously this was a very sprightly yet smooth dream machine to fly, but power hungry and bordering on a little noisey. Now I'm getting 12 minute flights that are so smooth and quite, I just can't believe it. I can't say the rpm yet as I need to fit the telemetry sensor. The batteries are much cooler and the ESC is not warm at all. The batteries are both taking 2500MAh after 12 minutes flying and 1950MAh after 10.

I've always loved this helicopter because of the way it flies but was going to sell it to buy a longer flying helicopter. I have now decided to keep it. I can't get over how silent it is and the hovering accuracy is much better and actually incredible.

Now the big question on increasing flight time further. Would an 8s setup bring the governed throttle into a more efficient range and increase flight time? Also would I be able to use the Jive 80HV or would I need to increase to a Jive 120HV?

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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04-29-2017 01:17 AM  5 months agoPost 13
gologo

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Sedalia, Mo USA

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I can't get over how silent it is and the hovering accuracy is much better and actually incredible.
Would you even say ..........SCALE-like??

That is the way I describe the way mine fly in hovering maneuvers,
love it!!

I think 8s would certainly let you get back up to a 'happier' (for
the esc) percentage and you shouldn't have to do anything w. the 80hv. The Logo 600se has had the Jive 80 since I bought it 5yrs ago,
w. 10s mostly at first, then tried 6s and in the last year or so,
tried 8s. As mentioned before, the 10s may be phased out, flys soooo
good on 6 and 8s! The 80hv has been happy w. all three, no issues.

The gob700 has had the Jive 120....almost 4yrs now, 6s and 8s, again
NO issues.

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04-29-2017 01:35 AM  5 months agoPost 14
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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Definitely scale like, reminds me of flying AS350's although the Vibe is way more stable in the hover!

I think the next packs I buy will be 4s for 8s operation.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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05-02-2017 03:13 PM  5 months agoPost 15
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Now the big question on increasing flight time further. Would an 8s setup bring the governed throttle into a more efficient range and increase flight time? Also would I be able to use the Jive 80HV or would I need to increase to a Jive 120HV?
Yes, not only would the motor and ESC be running more efficiently but the 4s packs would have 33% more capacity for the same weight as the 6s packs! 6s 3000mah vs. 4s 4500mah for example.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-03-2017 06:01 AM  5 months agoPost 16
gologo

rrKey Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

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Yep, you certainly won't pay a weight penalty going up in capacity w.
4s. In fact, I started a little low w a pair of 4000s, but still gave
me a good eight min. regularly on the Logos. Then went to a pair of
Pulse 4500s last year....very nice....close to 10m w/o stressing them.

And you might even do 5000s no problem......

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05-03-2017 10:13 AM  5 months agoPost 17
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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I will probably look at 8s at some stage. I'm looking at stretching to 700 size for an AS350 scale model of a helicopter I used to fly. In this case with the Pyro 700-45 I guess I should be able to use 2 4s5000 packs.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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05-31-2017 03:19 PM  4 months agoPost 18
shakol88

rrNovice

San Diego

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Mikado Logo 690 SX

I have the Logo 690 SX that I regularly fly at 950 rpm for 13 to 15 mins on 6S 5000 mah. I just do sport flying and scale flying with it. It is set up with:
700 mm Align F3C main blades
115 mm Align tail blades
Castle Creations Edge 80HV ESC
KST HV servos
Savox 500kv motor
15 T pinion
6S ChinaHobbyLine Lipos 30C 5000 mah
3000 Life for electronics
Medium O-ring dampers
Naza H
This Heli flies so smooth and so silent and is my go to heli when I just want to relax and have fun flying.

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07-25-2017 12:02 AM  85 days agoPost 19
PaulBowen

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East coast Australia.

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My JR Vibe NEX E8 3 blade 600 is now giving 12 minute flights at 1400-1450rpm. The helicopter is flying beautifully.

This is up from my previous 8 minute flights. I'm not sure the previous rpm as I haven't measured it yet.

Futaba T18SZ, JR Propo XG14, Hirobo fanatic!

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07-26-2017 09:13 PM  83 days agoPost 20
gologo

rrKey Veteran

Sedalia, Mo USA

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Paul, what did you settle on, for batteries, on it?

Shakol, GREAT heli and setup....and I know what you mean

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