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Scorpion Power GLOBAL 3D
04-19-2017 12:24 AM  66 days agoPost 1
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Try to setup ikon on Futaba sbus. Got this from friend who said he couldn't get it to work. Thought I try it. How do get software to recognize futaba 14sg radio Throttle seems to respond. But nothing else. Help.

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04-21-2017 08:34 PM  63 days agoPost 2
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I assume this is the older iKON and not the new iKON 2
This (iKON):

Not this (iKON 2):

I am going to also assume you are using an actual SBus receiver and not a "traditional" non-SBus Futaba receiver

If you open the MSH Windows application on your PC and the PC is connected to the Internet, it should have update itself to the latest version.
This is assuming you don't already have the latest MSH Windows setup app installed.

When you connect the iKON to the PC (using a USB cable) and open the MSH Windows application while the PC connected to the Internet, the MSH Windows application should prompt you update the gyro's firmware.

Once this is done, then you are ready to start the setup.

Look in the Windows app.
1) There is a full set of manuals.

2) There are options for selecting the receiver type (Futaba SBus) and that will change the screen that displays the wiring diagram for servos and the SBus connection.
The SBus serial lead will connect to the gyro's "Ch3" (I think) - but follow the wiring diagram
I believe the wiring diagram also shows power running directly to the iKON instead of the SBus receiver. This would be best for power distribution.

3) The "Basic" screens walk you through, step by step, the setup and configuration of the gyro.
There are 12 screens (I think).
Each screen has a detailed description on the left side of the screen that talks you through what you need to do.
And, each of the items on each screen has a "bubble" that will pop-up if you hover over that item.

4) There is an "Advanced" set of screens. You can switch between "Basic" and "Advanced" but clicking on the <VIEW> application menu item.
You don't need the Advanced screens to do the setup.

9 times out of 10, the basic setup is almost perfect.
There is no need to fiddle with the setup for the maiden flight.
And, it may be so good that there is never a need for any adjustments.

But, if you follow all the directions, and it still doesn't work, then it may be burned out in some way.
A good guess is that your buddy connected power to the 4,5,6 port - that will fry it good.

If you have an older "traditional" Futaba receiver, you can test the gyro with that to see if the gyro is functional. The big drawback with the traditional RX is the iKON gov is disabled.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
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04-25-2017 03:41 AM  60 days agoPost 3
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Yes this ikon belonged to a friend I fly with and he had it for about 2 years and couldn't get it to work on his radio . So I was just seeing for him if it would work on my Futaba sbus setup. But couldn't get pass the Radio calibration menu. He said it did the same thing on his JR radio

Because I wanted to try Ikon, I went ahead a bought the Ikon2. Just came today.

I been off work for 5 weeks and just went back to work today. To pooped to install it tonight. Just had my second total knee replacement done this year and just thought after 5 weeks I needed to get back to work and makes some money. I may put it on this weekend and give it a go. I am pretty sure there was a problem with his. I have the bavarian demon install I my Trex 600 pro and it uses a similar setup and it flies great. I just always wanna to try different controllers and since the Ikon2 has the bail out feature. I can't wait to see how that works out.

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04-25-2017 03:44 AM  60 days agoPost 4
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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What kind of gov sensor will work with the IKON2. I have one from a futaba gov that used on the cgy750. Is that compatible with the IKON?

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04-25-2017 10:17 PM  59 days agoPost 5
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Any of the typical sensors work (including the Futaba)

The iKON used a 3.3v regulator to power the gov port.
The iKON 2 uses servo-bus voltage on the gov port.

No one has ever reported a problem with the Brushless motor sensors or any of the magnetic pickup sensors (or Backplate sensors) running at 2S LiPo voltages.

Make sure you download the latest MSH app before you start on the iKON 2 or the iKON.

Do not trust the version that you may have previously installed
http://update.mshbrain.com/Software/BRAINSTALLER.msi

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
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04-28-2017 07:19 AM  57 days agoPost 6
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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So lets get this straight. Are you saying to trust the link you provided or not too. Please clarify .

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04-28-2017 04:33 PM  56 days agoPost 7
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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You can trust the link I provided.

Whenever someone is debugging a problem, I recommend getting (or make sure they have) the latest version of the Windows setup app.

If the PC is not connected to the Internet when you open it, it will not prompt you to update the application.

Same for the firmware on the iKON.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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04-29-2017 05:04 AM  56 days agoPost 8
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Thanks for your help ticedoff8.

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04-30-2017 01:55 PM  54 days agoPost 9
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Ok installed the IKON2 on my Trex 700n and went through setup. afterwards I was checking to make sure everything is moving in the correct direction. When roll the helicopter to the left the swash moves in the same direction, I need that reversed. In what menu came I reverse this? Elevator is compensating correcting.

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04-30-2017 04:21 PM  54 days agoPost 10
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Update. Ok I was unable to get the swash responding in the correct direction. That's all good now. I another question about how do you change the different setup modes. It says current default setup is set to 1. It also indicates it wants channel 7 assign to that feature. That channel is assigned to my gov. This is somewhat confusing I am using the Futaba T14sg transmitter with the SBUS 6203 receiver. What are the different setup modes purpose? Need clarification on this. Can anyone help that is using Futaba radio with the IKON2?

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04-30-2017 11:27 PM  54 days agoPost 11
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Ok installed the IKON2 on my Trex 700n and went through setup. afterwards I was checking to make sure everything is moving in the correct direction. When roll the helicopter to the left the swash moves in the same direction, I need that reversed. In what menu came I reverse this? Elevator is compensating correcting.
Assuming you accurately setup the radio transmitter's channels to match then receiver output channels for directions and got 100% throw on screen 5 of Wizard Menu (AKA: Basic), then having the compensation reversed is a BIG problem and cannot be ignored.

If you "solved" this by reversing one of the transmitter's channel direction, you have set your self up for an instant crash if you hit "Auto Level" or "Rescue". And, you may not be happy.

This is usually caused by connecting two of the three swash servos to the wrong channel output on the gyro.

A very careful review of the wiring diagram and the relationship of servos based on their mounting in the helicopter and then actually tracing the lead will usually indicate you swapped the L and R (srv-3 and srv-2) servo's leads.

This can also be screwed up by selecting an incorrect "Orientation" of the gyro on screen 9 of the Wizard.
Typically, people with confuse "Top Up, Wire Back" with "Top Up, Wires Front" (or vice-versa).
Update. Ok I was unable to get the swash responding in the correct direction. That's all good now. I another question about how do you change the different setup modes. It says current default setup is set to 1. It also indicates it wants channel 7 assign to that feature. That channel is assigned to my gov. This is somewhat confusing I am using the Futaba T14sg transmitter with the SBUS 6203 receiver. What are the different setup modes purpose? Need clarification on this. Can anyone help that is using Futaba radio with the IKON2?
I don't have Futaba.
There are two sets of screens: Basic and Advanced.

The "Basic (AKA: Wizard Setup) will walk you through all the setup steps needed to get you flying.
But, the Wizard assumes a standard layout of channels

If you switch to "Advanced Menu", select the "Common" tab and then select "Receiver" you see how to map receiver channels to functions.

By default, "Tail gain" is on channel 5 and "Setup Selection" is on channel 7. Pick what you like.

There is no dedicated "gov" channel in the iKON. The default "Throttle" channel is channel 3.

There are 3 Setups that can be selected from the transmitter.
These are basically set in screen 13 of the Wizard.
If you want the iKON governor to be enabled, check the box that is labeled "Gov" for all three.
Then select the icon for the style of flying you would like to use for each setup.

In the "Advanced Menu" select the tab "Setup" and you can see the 4 areas you can modify (Input, Tail, Cyclic and Gov & Level).
If you selected icons from Basic screen 13, then everything is pre-filled in - it is up to you if you want to change anything.

Personally, I don't check the box for "Rescue" in the Setup screen.

I assign "Rescue" to a dedicated channel and use it separate from the Setup selector.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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05-01-2017 03:11 PM  53 days agoPost 12
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Thats helps a lot. The rescue function is new stuff for me. But I am definitely interested in setting it up later. First I am just going to get it flying and then go back later and set up the GOV and rescue feature. I believe I have corrected all the problems I was having before and now just to double check setup and verify my settings. One thing I am still not sure about is pitch curves. Are those adjusted in the Radio to my liking or does the ikon take care of that. I am used to the beastx and it states that pitch curves can be fine tune in the radio after setup is complete? And what about expo? And dual rates?

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05-01-2017 03:29 PM  53 days agoPost 13
meowguy

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Saco, ME

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On my helis flight mode 1 - normal mode travel is 30 40 50 75 100. My flight mode-2 is the same as flight mode 1. Flight mode 3 (3D mode)and the Throttle hold pitch curve are set 0 25 50 75 100. When you setup the pitch using a pitch gauge on the iKon in Step 7, make sure you are using either the 3D or the Throttle Hold full linear pitch curve. You need a fully closed throttle channel when you adjust the pitch in the iKon or you will get an error message and cannot proceed until corrected. Throttle hold is the best way to do that and you can adjust the low throttle point until you can enter Step 7 without an error message. Make sure to set the throttle hold back to a low setting that will do what you want later (like either a low idle, or shut off the motor).

I hope I haven't confused you.

How are you doing with the tail setup? Have you got the gyro sensor action going the right way?

Jim

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

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05-01-2017 04:50 PM  53 days agoPost 14
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Thats helps a lot. The rescue function is new stuff for me. But I am definitely interested in setting it up later. First I am just going to get it flying and then go back later and set up the GOV and rescue feature. I believe I have corrected all the problems I was having before and now just to double check setup and verify my settings. One thing I am still not sure about is pitch curves. Are those adjusted in the Radio to my liking or does the ikon take care of that. I am used to the beastx and it states that pitch curves can be fine tune in the radio after setup is complete? And what about expo? And dual rates?
Set your pitch curves in the radio.
There is no pitch curve settings in the gyro.
Nothing

The assumption is that your radio's pitch curve is set linearly from -100% to +100% with the 0 crossing at mid-stick.
And, this is translated to a linear pitch curve on the gyro. This is confirmed in page 5 of the "Wizard Menu"

Then, to set your maximum collective and cyclic pitch, you use the cyclic mixers and collective mixer in the gyro.

There are two ways to set these:
On page 7 of the "Wizard Menu", the icons on the right will set your maximum collective (the "PITCH" icon) and the maximum cyclic pitch (the "CYCLIC" icon).
The basic instructions are on the left side of the screen.
This will get you flying.

But, for a finer tuning, in the "Advanced Menu", select the <Common> tab and then select "CCPM"
The "Pitch Mixer" is used to set your maximum collective pitch.
Move your collective to 100% full up stick and with a digital pitch gauge, use the "Pitch Mixer" to fine tune your maximum collective pitch.

With the collective stick centered (0* blade pitch), use the "Aileron Mixer" and the "Elevator Mixer" to set your maximum cyclic pitch.
By default, the "Wizard Menu" slaves the Elevator & Aileron mixers together. But,in the "Advanced Menu" you have the option to adjust Aileron and Elevator separately.

Later, after you setup the gyro's mixers, you can go back to the radio and change the radio's pitch curves for different flight modes.

Personally, I found this a real stumbling block to learning to fly a heli.
EG: If the low point of the pitch curve is -3*, this enforces the thought of "I'm in trouble, pull full down collective" as if that will cut the motor an minimize the damage
The problem is that as you advance, it becomes more difficult to "unlearn" that behavior.
And, you get into this thought process of "Take off in FM1 (-3* low pitch) and then switch to FM2 (linear pitch curve) for a little bit of 3D".
The problem is when you forget to switch to FM2

Better is to lean on the gyro's "Auto Level" and "Rescue" to help you when you get into trouble.

Expo / Dual Rates:
There are two places to set Expo:
* The radio
* The gyro.
They are additive and not exclusive

You can only set DR in the radio - there is no gyro setting for DR.

The MSH designers give you settings in the 3 "Setup" screens to set Expo.
In the "Advanced Menu", select the <Setup> tab and click on "Input".

There are Expo settings for everything.
You can also set the "Deadband" for cyclic and tail.
And, each of the 3 setups can have different values.

Personally, I zero-out the 4 "Input Exponential" values, and set Expo in the radio.
I found (for me) that Expo is based on the flight mode / headspeed.
Putting the Expo in the radio allows me to set Expo based on flight modes without remembering to switch "Setup" when I change flight mode.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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05-03-2017 01:02 AM  52 days agoPost 15
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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Wow that really helps. I guess I shouldn't come off like a newbie. I apologize for that. I been flying heli's for over 11 years. This however is my first IKON2 setup. Some what confusing compared to beastx and Futaba CGY 750. But similar to the bavarian Demo which I have install on TREX 600 Pro fbl.

I believe I have it setup and ready for the maiden. Since this is a 700 nitro i have it setup on. I finishing the setup using the wizard in the controller and then confirmed that all control surfaces are moving in the correct direction. And also took a look at the advance settings.

The IKON utilize the pc for setup and other controllers I have used in the past don't. This is why i have been asking so many questions. Just want to make sure all is correct. Don't want any surprises when I maiden it. LOL

As far as expo goes, I believe I will let the IKON handles this until I see if I like it or not and then I may switch to the radio. Crashing on the maiden flight is unacceptable . On nitro setup I like to set normal at -5 0 +10 and then go to a linear curve on flight mode 1 of -10 0 +10 .

I am not in 3d. I mostly fly sport. I would like to learn some 3D. But in my area, where I fly there aren't many heli fliers. I pretty much taught my self to fly. I did take some private lessons several years ago from Todd Bennett. Not to be bragging though. I will let you know ticedoff8 how the maiden goes. I really aprreciate all the info. Thanks again. If I have more questions I know who the expert is on RR

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05-03-2017 07:14 AM  52 days agoPost 16
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I took lessons from Todd too.
Three days in Hollister, CA. I flew my Raptor 90 SE/3D
He's a nice guy.

I also fly a Trex 700N with my Brain 2 HD/BT
And, a Trex 600N with Brain 2 HD / BT

Good luck.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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05-12-2017 02:37 AM  43 days agoPost 17
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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I noticed from your pics. You are running a 3 blade setup. How does that compare to the 2 blade. What advantages are they?

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05-13-2017 02:09 AM  42 days agoPost 18
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Three blades are more stable, lower vibration, cyclic response is better / crisper, the collective response is better and the head speed can be lower.

I run 3-bladed tail rotors too.

I have my T600E, T600N & T700N with 3-laded heads and tails.
My Goblin 380 is a 3-bladed head, but a 2 bladed tail.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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05-30-2017 03:39 PM  24 days agoPost 19
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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update to my progress. I originally received the heli used. Yesterday I decided to go for the maiden flight. I couldn't get the align 91 that came with the heli to start. Would even fire. Not sure why. I tried a different plug and still no go. So I had purchased a OS 91 hz a couple of years ago off of here. Got a good buy on it. Or did I? Any way at the time I didn't have a heli to put it in. So since I couldn't get the align engine to work. I installed the OS engine. Fired right up. But here is the issue with it. When you reach about mid stick the engine just quits. Doesn't sputter or anything. Just shuts off like you hit the kill switch. Reset the mixture screws to the factory settings. According to the manual High 2 turns out and mid range same. I noticed the it has a A3 glow plug installed in it. Decided to install #8 But this hits the top of the piston when cranking. How is this possible. I believe I need to tear this engine down and see what shim is installed. Any Ideas on what else I might check? Also I may try cleaning carb with some carb cleaner.

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05-30-2017 04:54 PM  24 days agoPost 20
ticedoff8

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There are only three things needed for ignition:
Air, Fuel, Heat (glow plug / spark)

I don't know what you checked on the Align motor before giving up, but they are pretty simple engines.

Air (compression):
* Worn ring, a hole in the piston or a hole in the glow plug.

Fuel (lack thereof or too much or wrong fuel)
* Fuel lines (pin hole, clogged filter), no pressure in the fuel tank, restricted muffler.
Also, the nitro content should be 20% to 30% and the oil content should be in the 20% to 23% range (full synthetic oil is best - not a blend of castor oil / synth and not 100% castor oil)

Heat:
Bad glow plug, bad glow plug battery.

The 4th factor is general condition of the motor.
The assumption is that the motor is in good condition, mechanically sound and well maintained. If it is worn out or broken, forgetaboutit.

I would start with a tear down of the Align motor to check for anything that is "odd".
If it is a 91, then it is a "re-branded" OS 91HZ motor.
Changing the ring and/or main bearing is a good idea as a start.
If the piston is burned and/or the sleeve is scored, a new piston & sleeve is also required.

As for the OS 91HZ, there is no way the OS #8 plug can "hit the top of the piston".
By design, it isn't possible.
Even with no shims at all, any standard helicopter engine glowplug will not hit the top of the piston.

I can only imagine (if, in fact it is hitting the piston) that the seller re-drilled the glowplug hole because they stripped it and didn't want to buy a new head.

Assuming the head has not been modified, most likely, as you turn the flywheel, you are feeling or hear a "click" as the piston passes through Top Dead Center.
If so that is not the piston hitting the glowplug.
That is the connecting rod having to much play in either the wrist pin or the main bushing.

I do not fly plank - but I suspect the "A3" glow plug is for a typical fixed wing airplane engine.
The Align / OS engines can use the Enya or the OS helicopter glows without any trouble.
The OS #8 is the most popular

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Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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