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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › 600 size scale UH-1N RCA Parts
04-11-2017 10:33 PM  74 days agoPost 1
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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The manual is simply a joke because it just shows a few pictures of parts already built in the 600 mechanics. But there is no step by step of where those parts should be used for in the build.

Does anyone know which parts are for what as most of them are numbered but there are no reference to them from the manual?

I have a 600ESP as it is recommended but either I was tricked into believing a bigger motor size would fit, or the frame mounting bolts of the UH-1N is the same 47mm long as the ESP.

Shame on Roban again

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04-12-2017 01:37 PM  74 days agoPost 2
tgalo

Senior Heliman

USA

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haha no doubt, the absolute worst manuals ever! There is simply a lot of assumed knowledge. What parts in particular are you asking about. On my build I had to buy a smaller motor too. There is a set of frames for the Trex pro but no one could tell me where to get them. I have the instructions for them

Gravity's a bitch ant it?

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04-13-2017 02:25 AM  73 days agoPost 3
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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Hi, here are the pictures of them.

The "linkage rod" 2nd picture shows the curve and three straight rods. They are used for the two cyclic servos but how, especially the curve one that has only one end threaded, very confusing (the manual as you already knew shows nothing about how to use the parts by numbering on the kit)? The stock ESP has three servo linkage rod per cyclic servo: two on the servo arm to the lever and one from lever to the swashplate. Are there missing linkage rods from the kit?

The "unknown" 1st picture shows a few that I have no idea what and where they are for. I thought it'd be straight forward as it said to work with ESP but not really.

Btw do you fly yours with DFC or FL rotor head and which brand is this? I plan to use the Align DFC version. Does the DFC main shaft have enough clearance from the blade to the dog house cover? It just looks too short to me.

Thanks for helping.

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04-13-2017 09:01 AM  73 days agoPost 4
Andy01

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

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Very hard to tell from the pics what the first ones are for. Depending on the size, you could match them up with something - perhaps spacers for the cyclic bell cranks ?

I would think that the "linkage" with the curved end is actually the tail bump rod - it screws into the tail just below where the angled gearbox goes - at least it did on my 500 sized UH-1N.

Perhaps one of the straight rods is for the tail control rod from the bell crank up to the tail, or for the elevator cyclic linkage ?

The 2 identical straight rods may be for the linkages from the swash to the bell cranks on either side of the mechanics (again if it is anything like my 500 size).

Look for a build thread of a similar model on HF or SRCH - I am fairly certain I have seen a 600 size thread before and see if there is any info there.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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04-13-2017 10:36 AM  73 days agoPost 5
tgalo

Senior Heliman

USA

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As Andy said, the curve is for the skid on the tail. I cant really see the pictures, but Ill take some pictures of mine and email them to you, As far as the head, I had converted it to the FL style head before I put the mechanics in the fuse. And I did use a longer main shaft. All from Align. Its not a bad build so don't get discouraged, they fly great when finished.
T

Gravity's a bitch ant it?

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04-13-2017 08:55 PM  72 days agoPost 6
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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Which brand and motor size that you used for yours? Does it have enough power?

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04-15-2017 09:04 AM  71 days agoPost 7
Andy01

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

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An important thing that most people get wrong is that scale flying does not need a lot of power.

A good rule of thumb is around 50W/lb of weight. So an average 600 size two blade might weigh around 14-16lbs, so even at 16lbs, it will only need about 16 x 50 = 800W of power to fly gentle scale like FF. Hovering might be around 900-950W, and maybe around 1600W to deal with Oh $hit moments.

So, any 600 sized motor - 4025, 4030 or 4035 will have plenty of power - most have at least 2800W continuous. The most important criteria for selecting a motor is getting the kV correct.

Assuming old-school 170T mod 0.7 main gear and 13T mod 0.7 pinion and 470kV motor and 12s;

RPM = 470kV x 44.4V x 0.9 x 14T / 170T = 1547rpm at 100% throttle towards the end of a flight.

So, govern to 95% and you get 1470rpm which is probably OK if using the longest wide chord blades you can get away with.

I use Spin asymmetric wide chord 465mm blades on my 500 size UH-1N and fly it at 1700rpm, and it flies well.

If you want a bit more headspeed either chose a slightly faster motor or a larger pinion.

I have Xera 4030-470kV motors on my 2x 710mm Long Ranger and 4x 600mm Seahawk, and a XNova 4035-300kV motor on my 4x 820mm EC-145. They are great motors. I would recommend the XNova 4030-470kV motor and either 14T or 15T pinion.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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04-15-2017 10:19 PM  70 days agoPost 8
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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That makes sense but since I've already bought probably the same motor that was returned before, lol, and just ordered some parts to fit it on my ESP, I decided to go ahead with that setup. I guess I can fly the "heavy" gunship in fff below midstick then lol, with cooler running motor.

One thing though can I just swap out the 6S pack with a 7S one for the same 6S setup in the CC Edge ESC (gov mode) that supports up to 8S, or I have to change the ESC to 7S? I remember it has a "fixed" battery voltage selection up to 12S. I don't havea 7S pack yet but just wonder what if, even I still prefer the reusable 6S packs which should have plenty of power and flight time for scale flying.

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04-16-2017 01:42 AM  70 days agoPost 9
Andy01

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

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If you set up your pitch curve correctly below midstick would be around +3° of pitch which is too low to fly.

Also, IMO use the governor setting on the ESC, which means that the position on the TC is irrelevant.

Perhaps we might be able to comment more effectively if you provided some details about your proposed setup. It sounds like you are planning to fly either 6s or 7s, not HV ?

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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04-16-2017 08:58 AM  70 days agoPost 10
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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It's 6S just like stock but upgrading the 7S capable motor with 3kW continuous (actually the stock 600M or MX 1220kV was shot due to a popular bad OWB design but luckily no crash), and to CC ESC 100A Edge.

To keep just necessary and less sensitive CP range from -2 to +10 with more motor power, that was what I supposed fff can be done just a tad below midstick. As it has been on my other CF in 500E nice smooth fff right around midstick, and hovering just one tick below that. Really the CP range is pretty much optimized for just pure scale flying (no pitch pump, fast climb or extreme aerobatic maneuvers). The 500E with 6200mah easily lasts 8 mins (with a min or so of in between hovering) with 3.8V remaining.

Surely this upgraded 6S setup will be a bit too much for the UH-1N scale fuse with stock scale parts.

What I'm concerned mostly is how to achieve a near perfect CoG with all the scale stuff in the front. Do you guys fly scale helis with about one or two inches behind CoG? Do the helis fly normal like that? I've NEVER flown one without a near perfect CoG, even dead weight was added.

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04-16-2017 09:27 AM  70 days agoPost 11
Andy01

Senior Heliman

Brisbane, Australia

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So is the new motor 1220kV ? If it is, this may be too fast unless you govern heavily using the CC ESC, which they don't like.

Most scale helis I have seen (with an appropriately slow headspeed) will lift of around 4-5° of pitch and need a few more degrees for Fast FF. If you are doing FFF on 4°, it may be that you headspeed is a bit high.

Assuming you have - 7x 3.7V = 25.9V, 170T main gear, 13T pinion (the smallest Mod 0.7 pinion) & 1220kV motor, your headspeed will be something like;

RPM = 1220 x 25.9 x 0.9 x 13T / 170T = 2175rpm at 100% throttle towards the end of the flight.

I would guess that you may want to run somewhere around 1500rpm for a scale 2 blade 600, which would mean that you would be running around 1500/2175 = 69% on the ESC.

Running a Castle ESC at 69% is likely to make it pretty hot unless you are flying in very cold conditions, as I am guessing that most parts of Texas do not qualify as cold

Your ESC will automatically select the correct voltage for either 6s or 7s, but it cannot select up to 12s as you mention - you would need a HV model for 12s.

Staying with 6s would reduce the headspeed to around 1864rpm, so 1500rpm would still mean governing to 80% on the ESC. Castle ESCs prefer to run between 90-95% ideally, and down to 85% at a push.

Voltage is a pretty poor gauge of lipo discharge, and assuming you are referring to 3.8V/cell cold (and not under load), you may be running the 6200mAh lipo down to more than 80% discharged (or more than 5000mAh).

Actually most scale helis tend to be tail heavy, particularly models with raised tails (like Hueys), large tail sections (like Blackhawks), fenestrons (like EC-135), so usually either larger lipos or additional ballast is required to get the CoG into a nice slightly nose-down setup. This is why many of us use 10s or 12s setups - not because we need the extra power, but rather because the extra ballast weight may as well be useful. Flying with a tail heavy model is not much fun.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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04-16-2017 09:30 PM  69 days agoPost 12
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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Ok I may have mixed up the ESP with CF setup. There is no gov mode on the CF just a normal curve with a half V curve throttle. But gov mode on the ESP with 1100kV motor and 13T mod 0.6 pinion on 6S 6200mah pack (around 1700rpm HS reduced from stock setup ~ 2100rpm). So I'll be flying fff theoretically at midstick at 70% set rpm at 1600 to 1700rpm at about 86 to 90% ESC efficiency wo yellow warning from CC sw if hopefully possible.

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04-17-2017 02:35 PM  69 days agoPost 13
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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Another BIG issue: the upper bearing in the bearing mount for the vertical tail front gear drive from the kit will fall off because there is nothing holding it. How can this be? Any fix to that?

Shame on Roban again

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04-17-2017 03:24 PM  69 days agoPost 14
co_rotorhead

Veteran

Centennial, CO, USA

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Another BIG issue: the upper bearing in the bearing mount for the vertical tail front gear drive from the kit will fall off because there is nothing holding it. How can this be? Any fix to that?
What about flipping the bearing block over? IIRC, those bearing blocks should hold the bearings in on one side so they can't fall out. (and maybe a drop of green loctite on the outer race of the bearing just to make sure)

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04-17-2017 03:51 PM  69 days agoPost 15
RFCxPerT

Heliman

Texas

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But it can be bumped off even if being upside down due to vibration or shocks. Luckily I already got the green bearing retainer. Or best to use the stop collars which I just asked RCA to provide them free due to their lack of product design weakness and the maker Roban. Those should be included in the kit along must have parts to ensure the kit flight integrity.

It just does NOT make sense those super critical design spots (very cheap in cost) were either overlooked or weak (on purpose?) to compromise $1k plus rc helicopter.

This will be my very LAST Roban "superscale" crap ever.

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