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ProModeler Scorpion Power
HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Logictech 6100 creeping after connecting glow or trying to start
04-07-2017 07:24 PM  76 days agoPost 1
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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So I have been flying my raptor and I noticed the tail would slowly creep to the left. It was not doing it last year and I have not crashed it. Based on searching the gyro is probably dead and needs to be replaced.

It only creeps after connecting the glow or the starter. If I start the heli it stays locked in just fine. I am guessing the replace the gyro and tail servo since there is not really any support for their combo. Any ideas? I have everything centered on the radio for the tail.

I have a gy401 that works fine I can replace with but the logictech really locked in better than the gy401 and hopping it is still good

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04-07-2017 08:19 PM  76 days agoPost 2
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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"It only creeps after connecting the glow or the starter."

"If I start the heli it stays locked in just fine."

How do you start the heli without connecting the glow AND use the starter?

Not sure if I understand what you meant? From the description, "connecting" seems to cause your gyro issues.

Do you have ground strap from your engine to the negative of your flight battery pack?

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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04-08-2017 01:24 AM  76 days agoPost 3
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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can not start without connecting the glow and starter you are understanding correctly that was a reference to when the issue starts. Never had an issue with not having a ground as you mentioned but I can try that. This combo worked fine for the last two years.

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04-08-2017 06:59 AM  76 days agoPost 4
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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A MEMS gyro can be affected by high freq. vibrations, in addition to electrical interference.

In the range of ~15 - 30kHz for FBLs....yours is just a single axis gyro....don't know where the vibe band is....unless you've opened it and identified the MEMS gyro IC.

Anyway, a squeaky bearing could cause such vibes...and if high enough freq., you couldn't hear it.

Perhaps a "lube job" might help. Loose linkages?

Just a thought.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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04-08-2017 08:42 PM  75 days agoPost 5
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Ok thanks, just killing me it worked fine when I put it up last season

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05-10-2017 02:24 PM  43 days agoPost 6
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Could not find the issue so I change out to a GY401/9254 combo and it is happening to it. Checked smoothness, oil things, I even changed the RX. Something is causing a signal issue for the servo to loose center.

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05-10-2017 05:13 PM  43 days agoPost 7
Pistol_Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Given you have changed Gyro-Servo combo and even the RX, try the following process of elimination until drift goes away:

Disconnect cyclics servos one at a time;

Bypass gyro and plug tail servo into rudder channel;

Plug rudder servo into any of the cyclics channel;

If using extensions, bypass or replace with new;

Create a new model and start from scratch;

Try a buddys radio.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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05-10-2017 11:31 PM  43 days agoPost 8
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Ok cool I will try those. I have a 2nd radio and I tried that today with no success. I moved wires around thinking it may be power interference.

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05-10-2017 11:38 PM  43 days agoPost 9
JuanRodriguez

Elite Veteran

The Villages, Florida

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Slow drift to one side or the other while in heading hold is normal after initialization and before starting the heli....

You said that once you start the heli, all is good.....

I would say you're good to go.......

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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05-10-2017 11:56 PM  43 days agoPost 10
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Well tried all the above seems drift only goes away if the tail servo is not connected to the gyro. So direct connection to rudder or cyclic channels. I even tried creating a new model and nothing, still drifts.

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05-11-2017 02:00 AM  43 days agoPost 11
JuanRodriguez

Elite Veteran

The Villages, Florida

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Don't think you understood my response.......

When I initialize my hh gyro and get ready to start the heli , it is quite normal for the tail servo to "drift" ..... sometimes it goes to the extreme end . This is while the gyro is in heading hold ..... this is quite normal of any hh gyro I've owned Including the 401.

Once I start and run up the heli , all is perfect.....additionally, if I flip the switch to "rate" mode ( normal) there is no drifting and the tail rotor stays centered....

So, unless I'm misunderstanding your issue , you have no issue.

Is this your first heading hold gyro ??

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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05-11-2017 05:42 AM  43 days agoPost 12
Pistol_Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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It only creeps after connecting the glow or the starter. If I start the heli it stays locked in just fine.
Totally misread your post. Its creeping because you are vibrating heli when starting and or touching it. Gyro is responding accordingly.

As Juan said. Just fly it.

My previous post was for troubleshooting a faulty electronic component by process of elimination.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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05-11-2017 02:18 PM  42 days agoPost 13
pH7

Key Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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A heading hold gyro will always creep when the heli is not in the air. The reason is that the gyro will always see the need for a minor correction. If the heli is sitting on the bench (or ground or tailgate, etc.) the heli will not turn as the gyro commanded, so it corrects some more, the heli still did not turn as commanded, so it corrects some more, ... As this repeats many times a second, the tail creeps over and stays there.

In the air, things are completely different. The first minor correction actually does cause a slight rotation of the heli and the gyro is happy until the next slight gust of wind.

The visible difference between rate mode and heading hold mode is one way I do a quick check to see if I have the gyro gain doing the expected thing.

Phil Heavin

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05-11-2017 05:38 PM  42 days agoPost 14
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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No this is my 6th or 7th heli. Seems I only have an issue with this on my raptor. My Century Hawk Pro and past Pro did not have this issue nor does my Trex 450 with is HH gyro combo. With my Trex 450 and Current Hawk Pro they do not drift on the ground nor in the air it stays locked in or with a verrrrrrrrrry verrrrrrrrry slight rudder correct on my part. With the raptor it will turn 360 way faster than normal in HH mode if I am just trying to hover. I will see if I can make a video of both the Raptor and Century with the same tail setup and the difference in hovering. Yes, I have setup mechanical the best I could prior to flying in HH on the raptor.

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05-11-2017 08:03 PM  42 days agoPost 15
pH7

Key Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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Ok, I'm confused. In your first post you said:
If I start the heli it stays locked in just fine.
So, I assumed that you meant it stays locked in when flying. In your most recent post you said:
With the raptor it will turn 360 way faster than normal in HH mode if I am just trying to hover.
I'm not quite sure what "faster than normal in HH mode" means, since hovering it doesn't turn unless you give it rudder input.

I have a few other ideas, but feel like I am shooting in the dark until I understand the symptoms a bit better.

Phil Heavin

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05-11-2017 08:21 PM  42 days agoPost 16
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Yes, when I first start it is stays locked in but as soon as I am up and flying it is doing as I have stated. Sorry for the confusion. I will make a video because seem everyone are on different clouds and I guess I am not explaining it in a way that is clear to everyone.

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05-11-2017 08:26 PM  42 days agoPost 17
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

and I think you understand you just do not know that you know that you understand.
In the air, things are completely different. The first minor correction actually does cause a slight rotation of the heli and the gyro is happy until the next slight gust of wind.
In this statement you confirm there is normally a very slight movement in the tail while in the air but no full movement, the way faster that I mentioned below. Hope this is clear
With the raptor it will turn 360 way faster than normal in HH mode if I am just trying to hover.
I'm not quite sure what "faster than normal in HH mode" means, since hovering it doesn't turn unless you give it rudder input.

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05-11-2017 10:20 PM  42 days agoPost 18
JuanRodriguez

Elite Veteran

The Villages, Florida

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Yes , video sounds good cause your explanations sure don't make sense !!!

Have you checked your gyro mounting pad ??

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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05-11-2017 10:43 PM  42 days agoPost 19
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

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Cool, happy I do not make sense

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05-12-2017 12:39 AM  42 days agoPost 20
rowdog_14

Senior Heliman

Austell, GA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here is a quick video of the three setups in have. The trex450 Is hitting its limit because I cleared out the setting and have not re-setup the limits on it.

Watch at YouTube

As far as the raptor it actually started creeping without trying to start it in the video. Hopefully you all see what I am talking about. The trex450 and the pro tail are locked and not moving.

Tomorrow I will see if my wife can record a video of it hovering and how it turns as the tail servos creeps.

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