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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Sec Ed: Devos!
02-13-2017 01:12 PM  8 months agoPost 21
1helimech

rrVeteran

NW Fla....

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What RM3 said ......CC sucks .....duh ...just say'n but you can't fix people with there ( i do know which thier ta utz byda waze ) head in da sand ..eh

I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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02-13-2017 02:59 PM  8 months agoPost 22
sjgusmc21

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San Antonio, Texas

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My take is go back to the fundamentals that worked great for years, and recognize that all students do *NOT* have the same learning ability, and allow each to rise to whatever level they can reach, rather than holding the class back for the slowest kid, or worse yet, dumbing down the curricula so that all can appear to get decent scores . . . that ultimately mean nothing.

WINNER!!!! DING, DING, DING!

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02-14-2017 07:19 AM  8 months agoPost 23
slickporsche

rrVeteran

American/Philippines

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sjgusmc21

I think you have the correct idea, and we need to look at what there was before common core. We did fine before, and grew a nation.

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02-15-2017 12:44 AM  8 months agoPost 24
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

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My point exactly! We did find through a couple world wars, and all kinds of other stuff and led the world . . . . what changed? First, we started accepting all the worlds trash, and second: libtardism . . . Myself, I blame the second . . .

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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02-15-2017 03:53 PM  8 months agoPost 25
koppter

rrApprentice

Virginia

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i have asked for an intelligent response to what is wrong with CC. You guys are all tough here but I hope when it comes to school board meetings or letters to your department of ed for a curriculum review or change you have better reasoning than "it sucks." what came before CC isn't a big secret. Each state developed its own curriculum with an eye on what colleges and universities would require from their freshman. the states that opted out of CC continue with their standards. bringing in a PhD to discuss an 8th grade algebra problem...that's just funny. Sounds to me like you be looking into your state's credentialing requirements, which has nothing to do with CC, and which Texas doesn't use anyway.

CC has NOTHING to do with differences in learning ability. CC is a curriculum intended for the general population, not students with identified learning disabilities who are protected under the ADA. That's the case with any curriculum, and has been for years.

It is said in education that because most Americans at least finished high school, we have a nation of experts on education. Certainly that seems to apply here.

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02-15-2017 05:53 PM  8 months agoPost 26
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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CC is not perfect but neither was the old system that left millions of "other class" children with lesser quality education. I am sure CC helped as many who would have otherwise gotten very little from the old education system.

I think the fact that many of the CC "sucks" crowd absolutely abhor Obama, Obama's wife, or anything he supported says a lot. I don't think it's CC as much as it is Obama.

In theory, if CC wasn't associated with Obama, I am willing to bet those who hate CC so much would sing a different tune.

Just my opinion.

Mellisa

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02-15-2017 05:58 PM  8 months agoPost 27
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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Nope, a turd is a turd is a turd . . .

And ever consider that those that were supposedly 'left behind' just might not have the capability to learn as well as others? That's not 'left behind', that's 'helped to rise as far as their abilities allow'. *ANY* system that can claim equal output with disparate input is seeking the lowest common denominator - IE dumbing down to the level of the least capable at the expense of those who could otherwise do a lot better!

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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02-15-2017 06:15 PM  8 months agoPost 28
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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Nope, a turd is a turd is a turd . .
That's fair tad and I think your are correct in some ways. So my next question is how can we fix it? What will work best for everyone?

Some that say "CC Sucks" offer no solutions.

I think building off of the older system to make it more inclusive is a good starting point personally.

Mellisa

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02-15-2017 06:27 PM  8 months agoPost 29
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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If you want your child to read, you have to take the time to listen to them read. I took a young gal from terrible reading skills to the top of her class by having her read a newspaper article to me every night and then discussing it with her.

It did not matter the subject, she could choose, but listening to her improve over time gave me such satisfaction. She is thankful to this day. Math, reading or any subject takes involved parents. You can go as far and fast as they can grasp a subject. Reading is fundamental to everything.

Don't blame the teacher, the school or the system. You are responsible for your child.

Teach a child creationism... I have a big problem with that. School is no place for religion.

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02-15-2017 06:45 PM  8 months agoPost 30
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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Don't blame the teacher, the school or the system. You are responsible for your child
First and foremost.

Mellisa

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02-15-2017 08:34 PM  8 months agoPost 31
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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IMO the child mostly learns thru their own efforts.

One of the best classes I ever had was taught by a teacher who could not do the homework. College professor too. The other students freaked out and were spending all their energy harassing the poor dope. Trying to get him kicked out, (tenured, sorry, doesn't work that way...) Turns out the book was great. I just showed up once a week for a few minutes to confirm when the test was going to be and what unsolvable homework I had to do this week... All from the book...

If a student fails it is mostly on the student.

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02-15-2017 08:46 PM  8 months agoPost 32
1helimech

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NW Fla....

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Folks that say a teacher is not part of the equation are sadly miss informed... Education should be left at the local level. The Fed has no place in this issue..... thus CC sucks ....eh

I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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02-15-2017 08:50 PM  8 months agoPost 33
1helimech

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NW Fla....

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I'll NOT try to turn anyone's head on this ...Do your own homework on this CC stuff and IF you say it's good then go for it ...I'm way over trying to edumacate dumbys ...eh

I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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02-15-2017 11:48 PM  8 months agoPost 34
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I will never give the teacher a walk... they are very important in the process, but you need parents supporting the instructor. The school is giving the minimum. You can't accept the minimum for your kids.

I would NEVER support local control over the curriculum. I don't give a crap what you say, you have to have some national standards or the local coo-coos will run the asylum. "Math, we don't need math in our community."

Most of the text books are written to meet the Texas school requirements. They almost determine what is taught in this country. As we know, truth changes over time as information is brought forward.

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02-16-2017 12:38 AM  8 months agoPost 35
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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@Ladymagic First and foremost, we need to get out of the mindset that school is day care for the urban parasite crowd. Misbehaviour should *NOT* be tolerated at any level, and coddling needs to go. Subject matter should go back to the 3 R's fundamentals, and less of the AP crap that does not work (my parents were college professors . . . they saw first hand how college readiness degraded over time. All the advanced crap in the world is useless if the basics are not there . . .) Grading should be a hard standard, and no curving to pass the incompetent. Failure *must* be an option, as should be repeating grades. Those that can't keep up should go to remedial classes (or summer school) and those with behaviour problems removed from anywhere they can hinder others. Yes, school is a right in the USA, but that does *NOT* come with a right to disrupt others!

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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02-16-2017 12:57 AM  8 months agoPost 36
koppter

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Virginia

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whatever problems exist in education - and there are many - aren't going to be addressed with an attitude of let's do this or let's do that. decisions on education are based on research and data. I keep reading in this thread a total misconception as to what CC is and what it isn't. And nowhere have I said I am in favor of it or not in favor of it. I have simply asked for reasoned responses from those who say "it sucks".

there are reasons why things are done and for example to take a position that "curving" rewards the incompetent is simply foolish. there are good reasons behind curving - which is why it is done in middle schools, in high schools, and in college. State tests include questions that are poorly written or inadequately addressed in curriculum. Why shouldn't those results be discarded? Teacher credentialing exams for obvious reasons do not repeat, so one test is not the same as another - and to score those on a linear scale might be convenient, but it's also really stupid.

Behavior is the enemy - that we can agree upon. But we are limited in our response. Suspension are not effective, nor is even the threat of holding a student back - and the data is overwhelming conclusive that retention is a horrible strategy. It sounds great until you see it in practice. Go look at a fifth grade class and look for the tallest kid - that's the one who was retained. Or do you want 15 year old boys around 12 year old girls?

1helimech - again, I would love to hear from someone who has actually researched or experienced the challenges of delivering and assessing CC. And...in the same breath, tell me how to overcome the shortcomings of what came before it. And do not assume that I am in favor or it, because nothing that I have said implies or states that. I just happen to know a bit more about it than you do.

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02-16-2017 03:13 AM  8 months agoPost 37
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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You assume that those incapable enough to warrant being held back should be mainstreamed . . . that's one of my key points - get those who are holding things back away from others who are not, and let the best excel, and give the others help at the level they need. These paths shoud not cross - it hurts both groups.

Oh, and early grades, I was the tallest kid . . . I had also been advanced one year, so that's not necessarily true either.

My key here comes back to a simple fact: Equal opportunity does not imply equal outcome. We are stunting a lot of the talented by trying to 'bronze the pig' of those who clearly are not . . .

Oh, and getting the largely liberal majority out of education would do a lot to remedy the situation. Perhaps if we spent as much time worrying about why math scores are so low as we do on 'If Johnny fantasizes that he's female, why can't he use the girls room' kinds of crap . . .

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

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02-16-2017 03:45 AM  8 months agoPost 38
koppter

rrApprentice

Virginia

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there are many interesting discussions that can be had regarding education. what you need to be prepared for is that for every idea there are volumes of data that say it has or hasn't worked. take a simple question like year round or traditional. the data goes everywhere. no one, no matter how intellectual they claim to be, can say that we should do this or not do this, as you claim. to do so only shows how little you know about what is an extremely complex issue. and if you are going to politicize it that the conversation is over and any attempt to help kids is lost. I deal with stuff everyday - I guess I don't have the luxury of being uninformed. This is my 11th year as an educator..and I have taught at the elementary, middle, and high school level, including high risk students. I'm sorry - but you think that you have the magic pill that no one else has figured out? What have you personally done to improve the education of your population? Time to put up or shut up.

Get off your ass and go help a kid learn to read. You know what the defining change of CC is? It's language intensive. It combines multiple skills. And it isn't going away. So complain about, or pretend that you have the answers - either way, your contribution to education is zero. And yet, you want people to listen to you.

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02-16-2017 04:13 AM  8 months agoPost 39
1helimech

rrVeteran

NW Fla....

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My dear koopte, thank you for so VERY elaquently proving my point...stupidity can't be repaired....good day eh.... cc sucks

I dream of a better world, A world where a chicken's crossing a road IS NOT questioned

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02-16-2017 05:00 AM  8 months agoPost 40
dilberteinstein

rrNovice

texas - USA

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1helimech

My dear koopte, thank you for so VERY elaquently proving my point...stupidity can't be repaired....good day eh.... cc sucks
That's going to leave a mark!

90% of life is "showing up"

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