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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Scale head speeds
02-06-2017 07:35 PM  9 months agoPost 21
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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Stan, I run Set RPM mode. ESC is at 91% at 1200rpm, so right in the sweet spot. I do run a fan on the ESC due to the very tight closed cockpit of the Cobra (almost no airflow) but temps have never been "hot".

Steve

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02-06-2017 07:43 PM  9 months agoPost 22
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Interesting...

Steve, I am going to put mine back on the table when I get back home later and will check my settings.. (I've set up 4 helis over the weekend!!) and will get back to you...
Is your gearing the 13.845??
At 91% the ESC is as Happy as it gets!!
Something seems different.. I am also at 16.8 lbs AUW, just to get a comparison..

Stan

How is that primer coming?? No Hysol to watch set up... guess primer will have to do...

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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02-06-2017 07:58 PM  9 months agoPost 23
Tim W

rrNovice

Rancho Cucamonga​California

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Doorman, yes, I am using "set rpm" and governor mode. I entered all the necessary information as well i.e. Motor pole count, gear ratio, etc.

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02-06-2017 08:12 PM  9 months agoPost 24
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Had To Look!!

Guess I will be a bit late!!

I had some mixed info but here is what I found.

The motor I am using is 500kv 10p gearing is 13.845, 12s

The lowest hs is 1050 withing the range and up to 1365 highest.

So if you are running in those ranges you should be good on your ESC.. CC recommends that you be above 75% for everything to be happy..To go any lower you would need to start changing things...

Sorry for any mis-info...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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02-06-2017 08:26 PM  9 months agoPost 25
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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Steve, I am going to put mine back on the table when I get back home later and will check my settings.. (I've set up 4 helis over the weekend!!) and will get back to you...
Is your gearing the 13.845??
At 91% the ESC is as Happy as it gets!!
Something seems different.. I am also at 16.8 lbs AUW, just to get a comparison..
Stan
How is that primer coming?? No Hysol to watch set up... guess primer will have to do...
Yep same gearing. Difference is probably motor kV. I havent weighed mine, but I would guess I am at a similar weight as you.

No more hysol, at least not until the next build! LOL!

Steve

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06-08-2017 11:44 PM  5 months agoPost 26
lfedje

rrNovice

Chilliwack, BC,​Canada

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I am in the process of building my first Scale. It's a RCA (Roban) Bell 429 Super Scale. What I have right now is a Scorpion 4035-560kv motor, Roban mechanics, and of course the stock 4 blade head and tail (looking at the upgrade head and tail as well). I have looked everywhere to find what head speed I should be running and it appears as though around 1350 is about right (at least to start with). I am also running 12S 5000 packs and using a Hobbywing 130A ESC.

When I look at Mr. Mels Head speed calculator it suggests a governed optimal HS for this combination of 1482 with a lowest RPM of 1432. These calculations are based on an efficiency of 90%.

Maingear 306T
Pinion 22T

Should I return the motor to RCA for a lower KV such as 500 which allows for the lowest RPM 1f 1278, best performance 1323 and ok performance at 1376.

I have been flying CP 3D for a couple of years now, but the world of Scale is completely new to me and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, if anyone out there that has the same model and would like to discuss their build with me by PM, I sure would appreciate that.

Loren

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06-09-2017 09:27 AM  5 months agoPost 27
Andy01

rrApprentice

Brisbane, Australia

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Does that have 700mm blades ?

I would suggest around 1150-1200rpm for 4x 700mm, and around 1350rpm for 4x 600mm, so IMO 1482rpm is MUCH too fast. I have personally never Mr Mels too accurate for calculated scale governed headspeeds - it ALWAYS gave too fast a headspeed for me.

I am not sure that Mr Mels is applying performance or "scale" performance in the calcs.

Try this;

RPM = kV x (# of cells x 3.7V) x 0.9 (effeciency) / gearing = headspeed at 100% throttle towards the end of the flight. If you have a more common NON-active freewheeling ESC, you would aim to govern at about 90-95% of this, so;

RPM = 560 x 44.4V x 0.9 x 22T / 306T = 1608rpm at 100%, so running 1200rpm would mean governing at 1200/1608rpm = 74.5%.

I don't know about HW ESCs, but running a Castle ESC at 75% is very likely to generate some high ESC temps unless you live in the arctic circle.

I would either reduce the motor kV or use a smaller pinion (if possible).

Working on 1200rpm, you would want a 100% headspeed (using the formula above) of around 1300rpm, so you would need to reduce the motor kV to around 560 x 1300/1608 = 450kV, or use a combination of motor kV and pinion size to get the desired headspeed.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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06-09-2017 01:10 PM  5 months agoPost 28
lfedje

rrNovice

Chilliwack, BC,​Canada

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Thanks, Colin

Yes, I will be running 700 blades.

Your calculations make perfect sense to me. I have never trusted Mr. Mels even for 3D 2 blade but it was a reasonable guide, however, this is Scale 4 blade which could make things even worse.

I noticed that Chris Reibert was running 1450 on his Roban Bell 429 with a 500kv motor, but in his video it seemed too fast. I think aiming for something between 1200 and 1300, as you suggested, is much more realistic.

I will likely return the 560 and get the 450, and at the same time get the upgraded head and tail.

I am really quite impressed at the quality of the Roban product, although not perfectly to scale, for the price, I don't think you would find better, and I believe it's a good starting point to get into the world of Scale building. Lots to learn.

Also, I will be using a Brain2/Jeti DS-16 combination which is partly the reason for going with Hobbywing. Great package for telemetry to receive ESC temps, voltage, mAh consumed etc.

Loren

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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Scale head speeds
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