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HelicopterMain Discussion › Gustav Whitehead flew before the Wright Brothers
02-02-2017 06:19 PM  4 months agoPost 1
Heli_Splatter

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Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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As I read about the man who looped a helicopter first, it reminds me of the argument about who flew a powered airplane first. No it was not the Wright brothers and they knew it. Erase the text books.

The skullduggery of the Wright Brothers colluding together with the Smithsonian Institute's Samuel Pierpont Langley to prevent the truth from being uncovered is shameful.

To read more about this, here is a web link;
http://www.gustave-whitehead.com/

Being First has more to do with political capital, money and showmanship. I wish that we did not focus on #1 as much.

So, I am glad to have the guy first looping a helicopter be properly identified, and much earlier than I had imagined.

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02-03-2017 03:07 AM  4 months agoPost 2
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I have heard about Gustav Whitehead before on Tv, but in what I saw it was unknown if it really happened or not, it is sad he was not recognized for what he did

let me tell you a story about looping a full size Heli, when I was 9y.o. my best friend's father went to Vietnam, he was a Radio Commander in a Little Bird, so at my age of 11 when my friend's father came home I asked him about the helis, he told me this story about how the USA would teach the Vietnamese to fly. Keep in mind that he told me this story in front of my mother and father and his wife and son, He said there was a big-to-do celebration for all the new Vietnamese Pilots, well this one Vietnamese Pilot told his Mother he was going to go up and do a loop for her, well in short he tried and died. my friends father said he saw it happen

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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02-04-2017 01:21 PM  4 months agoPost 3
dialarotor

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Traverse City, Michigan

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Oh good another believer

Yes Whitehead flew first by years. Back in the 60's you use to be able to buy the book "History by Contract" limited edition explaining the achievements of Gustave Whitehead. Smithsonian led the denial and threw in with the Wright family when they threated to take back the Wright flyer from the museum if Wright brothers we not acknowledge as 1st to fly. Remember the Wright Flyer was in London up to the bombing of London in WWII and was brought back to America by Smithsonian & family after the contract was inked.

Gustave flew miles over water with witnesses not a paltry few hundred feet with a guy and a box camera.

Want to dig down and expose the Sikorsky lies and father of the modern helicopter? Don't believe it, get a copy of "Legacy of Wings", Harold Pitcairn story. Learn about the development and patents for everything we know of in the collective rotorhead, the development of air routes, Pitcairn biplanes, auto-gyros, and Eastern Airlines.
The loss of the family farm later to become WILLOW GROVE NAVAL AIR STATION, site of 1969 AMA NATS. Longest US patent lawsuit in American history and the mysterious death of Mr. Pitcairn. Remember this involves the US Gov, the fix at the US Air Corp trials, plans taken, delivered to Sikosky, just at the Air Force is removed from US ARMY, so they need helicopters and you get the birth of air mobile concepts that they need to test out in Viet Nam. Army, Navy, Air Force all jockeying for position, power and money in the post WWII world.

RapRex Pilot

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02-04-2017 01:35 PM  4 months agoPost 4
tommytt1

Veteran

Mercerville, NJ, USA

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Wow, all interesting information

I made a mistake once, but I was wrong?

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02-04-2017 06:44 PM  4 months agoPost 5
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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I will check out this book... I love these kinds of stories. Seems like the little guy always gets the shaft.

Hate paper, but will suffer for this read. thanks for the heads up. Love to hear more while I wait for delivery.

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02-06-2017 04:59 PM  4 months agoPost 6
da_man

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Central NC

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Yes, that guys aircraft was proven to be an airworrthy design and there were supposedly spectators.

From what I understand, the wright brothers didn't really get credited until they flew their new design in1909 in front of larger crowds with the correct observers showing their ability to control it in the air. Before 1909, nobody believed they flew their airplane in 1903.

So my point is the person(s) who can convince the masses they were the first get the credit.

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02-07-2017 02:53 AM  4 months agoPost 7
Gearhead

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Vt

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my point is the person(s) who can convince the masses they were the first get the credit.
yeeaa, kind of like listening to only one side of a 2 sided story

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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02-07-2017 01:03 PM  4 months agoPost 8
dialarotor

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Traverse City, Michigan

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Pitcairn learned about Wright's arrogance working for Curtiss

Pitcairn worked for Glenn Curtiss as a youth at Curtiss aircraft.
Pitcairn was a rich kid with a trust fund, heir to PPG family fortune. He was around when, after the Wright's failed to patent flight, they sued Curtiss for his creation of the aileron. Wright's were still wing warping for control. Pitcairn learned to document, archive and immediately apply to patent office any ideas, or changes to devices. Years later after hooking up with Juan DeCierva and his auto gyros, Pitcairn manufactured and pushed the gutogyro designs towards the eventual modern helicopter. This was done at his Pitcairn mailwing airplane factory. He built airplanes and autogyros we're his side interests.

Again read "Legacy of Wigs"

https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Wings...y/dp/0961822104

http://www.wright-brothers.org/Hist...v_Whitehead.htm

RapRex Pilot

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02-07-2017 05:01 PM  4 months agoPost 9
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Phew $524 for a new copy. Can I borrow yours

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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02-07-2017 05:05 PM  4 months agoPost 10
Heli_Splatter

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Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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It was only $200 the other day... somebody needs to shoot it and put it out there as a pdf or kindle book.

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02-08-2017 12:00 AM  4 months agoPost 11
dialarotor

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Traverse City, Michigan

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Yikes on the price

Wouldn't surprise me that the Wright's & Sikorsky's are buying up all the books to protect the lies.

RapRex Pilot

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02-08-2017 12:46 AM  4 months agoPost 12
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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Looks interesting. I just bought a copy on Ebay for $12. Can't wait to read it.

perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim

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02-08-2017 12:48 PM  4 months agoPost 13
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Maybe we can pass the book around? Cheapest I can find is almost $40. I'm curious but not $40 interested.

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02-08-2017 01:14 PM  4 months agoPost 14
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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I will let you kmow when I a done reading it.

perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim

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02-08-2017 04:57 PM  4 months agoPost 15
jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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This theory has been around for a long time. The problem is there is no documented, independently corroborated evidence that it really happened. There may even be others out there who never published. So we will never know. The Wrights had many flaws, but they where smart enough to invite the press for their first flight so we have incontrovertible proof - in the form of photos taken of the aircraft in flight by independent jouranalists - that it happened, when it happened.

An alternate take on the Whitehead legend
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...irst-in-flight/

The wright brothers did not "collude" with Samuel Pierpoint Langley... In fact Langley was trying to be the first himself with his "Aerodrome" that was built using Smithsonian funding (which failed miserably)

The Wrights did not get along with Langley at all, most written accounts including the very well researched "Wright Brothers" book by David McCulloch indicate that the Wrights and Langley became adversaries and basically couldn't stand each other. The feud was only made worse in later years when the wrights started launching lawsuits at anyone and everyone they saw as a rival to their early domination of flight.

Its sad because for the first 5 years or so (up till 1908) the Wright brothers where ahead of the entire world - They where flying cross country, climbing to hundreds of feet altitude and demonstrating figure 8 turns at a time when rivals like Santos-Dumont, Bleriot, Farman, Curtiss, etc where still struggling with straight line hops of a few hundred yards... and then they just stagnated... stopped innovating... and where eclipsed by many others.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-18-2017 01:00 PM  4 months agoPost 16
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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Lies, Lies and More Lies.

Gustav Whitehead did not supply the motor for the Wrong brother's first aircraft to fly.

Read the history of one Mr. Charles Taylor. He is the mechanic that provided the power for Wrong Brothers. He worked for the Wrong brothers. No-one would sell the Wrong Brothers power for an unproven idea. That is why Whitehead built his own engines. He alone had all the tools and training to accomplish first flight.

The state of Connecticut recognizes Whitehead as being first. As more information is available, expect the Wrong Brothers to be taken down.

The Smithsonian curator Langly is nothing but a hack. My hope is that someday, truth will be told at the Smithsonian.

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02-18-2017 08:08 PM  4 months agoPost 17
jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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Who said Whitehead made the Wright brothers engine? Im quite aware their engine was built by Charlie Taylor, an employee in their bicycle shop.

They had Taylor build an engine because any automobile engine they may have decided to use (the only option for an existing engine at that time) was far too heavy and underpowered to get off the ground. The used wind tunnel tests and calculations and knew that they needed at least 10hp in an engine that weighed under 200lb to get the plane in the air. Your typical car of the day - for example a curved dash olds, had a single cylinder engine of 95cubic inhces and a few hundred lb (being all cast iron and brass construcion) that only made 4hp. Taylor's purpose built engine was all aluminum and got 12hp out of 180lb- quite an accomplishment for the time.

This is all very well documented if you take the time to research...

Oh boy...

Just calling something a "lie" doesn't make it so. Let me guess, you're listening to the administrations "alternative facts" also I bet?

A claim is not proven until their is evidence.
Period.
End of story.

It may well be that Whitehead did fly when he claims. But in 100 years of trying NOBODY has produced any evidence.

Go back to your tin foil hat ....

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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02-18-2017 11:49 PM  4 months agoPost 18
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

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My post was not addressed to you... even though you might think so.

As if it really matters what I think, or you. I just happen to believe that the Wrong brothers pulled a fast one. I wear no tin foil hats, nor am I conspiracy theorist. If it is good enough for Jane's Aircraft and a Connecticut State Resolution, I am not going to change my mind.

Should you ever care to read half of what is on the Gustov website, you might see that many people saw what he claims.

Give the man his just due. Just because he is a German, and it is politically incorrect to celebrate German success, does not hide the facts.

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