RunRyder RC
 15  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4     NEXT    >> ] 2914 views POST REPLY
ProModeler Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › Taylor v. FAA - Update on Registration/DC SFRA Litigation
06-22-2017 10:11 PM  30 days agoPost 41
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If the FAA is pushing this "Community Based Organization" and the AMA is backing it for obvious reasons, what are the specific requirements to being a CBO?
Can RunRyder with all its registered members across the country just qualify as a CBO?
I have not seen any specific definition or language as to what is considered a CBO, but what I have seen, RunRyder fits the description.
People argue about that, but the fact is that Congress didn't provide a definition in the statute, and the FAA has provided no clarity.

The Committee report from the 2012 statute may provide some clarity, but it's unclear how much weight that will be given.

The FAA says they'll address it in future regulation. Meanwhile, you're subject to incarceration if you fly and you're not in one (or have a Part 107 certification).

That's a subject of my second suit, which has been pending since August, 2016. It's both arbitrary and capricious, and unconstitutionally vague, to have a requirement where a reasonable person can't determine how to comply.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:19 PM  30 days agoPost 42
xcellgasman101

Elite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thank you John Taylor for all you have done!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:19 PM  30 days agoPost 43
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And my understanding is that the AMA wants to take credit for John's work ???
I think the AMA takes credit for getting Sec. 336 enacted, which was the primary basis for my suit and the court's decision.

As far as I know, that's fair.

Whether my efforts will ultimately deserve more blame or credit from hobby remains to be seen.

I know a lot of people, here and elsewhere, have appreciated what I was trying to accomplish, regardless of the outcome.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:21 PM  30 days agoPost 44
raspeitia

Senior Heliman

US - WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

John,

Thank you. That was my take as well. It was being unreasonably vague and undefined, while at the same time the FAA is trying to say its a legal requirement.

Even though the AMA has put out messages saying the FAA recognized them as a CBO, what does that actually mean for a citizen expected to follow these rules.

As we all know when you're dragged into court, ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse in front of a judge.

I appreciate and thank you for your level headedness and follow through trying to keep some folks in government honest.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:22 PM  30 days agoPost 45
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

By whose authority?
If you're not operating according to the safety guidance, and "within the programming" of a CBO (whatever that may ultimately mean), then you don't fall under 101.41.

If you're not operating within 101.41, then you're not exempt from Part 107 under 107.1(a) and 107.1(b)(2) and 107.12's airman's certification requirement (and all its other requirements).

Since you're operating an aircraft without an airman's certificate, you're subject to three years in prison pursuant to 49 U.S.C. § 46317.

Of course, that's ridiculous, because these aren't aircraft, but the FAA dove down that slippery slope.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:22 PM  30 days agoPost 46
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Another cloud over the AMA

Remember TAM5 ?
The first model to cross the Atlantic by itself ?

Watch at YouTube

http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/...crossing_2.html

The then leader of the AMA, Dave Brown, was a part of the team headed up by Maynard Hill and even flew to Ireland to "collect" the model at the other end of the trip.

Right after that accomplishment, out of sight controlled flight was banned.

Good show Dave.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:29 PM  30 days agoPost 47
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The new House Bill would define "community-Based Organization" on p. 254-5:

https://transportation.house.gov/upl...te_004_xml.pdf

It also calls for the FAA to establish a process for "recognizing" CBO's (in other words... excluding other organizations from qualifying)

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:44 PM  30 days agoPost 48
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The House Bill also modifies the Special Rule for Model Aircraft to call for registration (p.252).

It seems to also call for licensing (p.233).

During the last legislative session, the Senate bill was much worse than the House bill.

It's well past time for people to get active in lobbying this, and pressing their organizations to lobby.

My case constitutes a very fragile victory.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:51 PM  30 days agoPost 49
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

In Europe they have much more regulation than here in the US but they also allow much larger models.

Watch at YouTube

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 10:59 PM  30 days agoPost 50
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"Of course, that's ridiculous, because these aren't aircraft"

LOL....Pirker must have had a really good attorney....in spite of Pirker's silly antics...

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 11:16 PM  30 days agoPost 51
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What's even more hilarious is that EVERY cop that's watched us over the years/decades loves the action....including just recently....even after this silly FAA nonsense.

They even volunteer to "man" their radars guns for speed timing.

With no mention whatsoever of the FAA "rules"....and these are both local and state cops....

We'll try to get the FBI's opinion too....but I guess they'll have no radar guns....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 11:39 PM  29 days agoPost 52
raspeitia

Senior Heliman

US - WI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did see the text of the new act. I got a chuckle on the recognizing part.

Read below to see who exactly can become a CBO and you will see who is lobbying for this new act which includes registration and such.

BTW, a 501(c) organization is generally a "Registered" tax exempt organization.

I can tell you right now, the AMA is poised to become the de-facto CBO in the US, so don't think they don't have something to gain by getting this act's language passed as is even if it includes registration.

This is getting pushed through under the same act that would have the FAA managed by a "corporation" so toy airplanes are nothing but 2-3 pages in this 334 page document.

‘‘(d) COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘community-based organization’ means an entity that—
‘‘(1) is described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;

‘‘(2) is exempt from tax under section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986;
‘‘(3) the mission of which is demonstrably the furtherance of model aviation;
‘‘(4) provides a comprehensive set of safety guidelines for all aspects of model aviation addressing the assembly and operation of model aircraft and that emphasize safe aeromodeling operations within the national airspace system and the protection and safety of individuals and property on the ground;
‘‘(5) provides programming and support for any local charter organizations, affiliates, or clubs; and
‘‘(6) provides assistance and support in the development and operation of locally designated model aircraft flying sites.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-22-2017 11:42 PM  29 days agoPost 53
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay....thru the nose, that is.....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 12:10 AM  29 days agoPost 54
JohnATaylor

New Heliman

Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Pirker must have had a really good attorney
He did - Brendan Schulman. He won the issue before the Administrative Law Judge, but lost before the NTSB.

The ALJ's decision was, IMHO, better reasoned.

The NTSB's decision has no precedential value in a federal court. They'll look at the issue from scratch.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 12:41 AM  29 days agoPost 55
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Washington seems to be a total mess....

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 01:15 AM  29 days agoPost 56
wayder

Heliman

Warner Robins, GA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Good Luck David!

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 03:11 AM  29 days agoPost 57
RabbitDFFD

Heliman

Claremore, Oklahoma - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I just found this thread and am beside myself. . I dont live in a highly populated area, matter of fact, I've got 1 neighbor that launches hot air balloons from his back yard and another neighbor that has a bi-plane at home with a 900 ft paved runway. It's crap like this that makes me LOVE country living. . Where I live, law enforcement will not even drive up your driveway without verbal or visual consent. . And that's the way the law is here. . there's no protection of trespassers or forced victimization for the protection and safety of those that would steal or vandalize your property. .If they take 2 steps on your land, you can use deadly force. . PERIOD. . Oklahoma IS OK!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 03:20 AM  29 days agoPost 58
RabbitDFFD

Heliman

Claremore, Oklahoma - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT

Every law and regulation that is passed is another Freedom or Liberty Lost. . There's just entirely too much corporate and financial consideration placed before that of the freedoms and liberties of us as free citizens of this country . . We need more DOERS like you John, it's all the blundering THINKERS screwing this country up. Will you be attending IRCHA this year John?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 06:50 PM  29 days agoPost 59
banshee rider

Senior Heliman

n.e. illinois

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

RabbitDFFD

.If they take 2 steps on your land, you can use deadly force. . PERIOD. . Oklahoma IS OK!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Better check page 37 before you go shooting somebody for trespassing
simple trespass without intent or a weapon is not a justification
for killing someone

you will be in jail and there relatives will own everything of yours

https://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_LAW_BOOK.pdf

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
06-23-2017 08:49 PM  29 days agoPost 60
RabbitDFFD

Heliman

Claremore, Oklahoma - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thread TOPIC

I'm not going to debate legalities of MY situation in this thread. Stay on topic. . Reply sent via PM Banshee Rider. . Please create a new thread if you'd like to go further in debate off of this thread topic, or mind your own business. Otherwise, you're more than welcome to come test my home security and see how that turns out as well.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4     NEXT    >> ] 2914 views POST REPLY
ProModeler Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › Taylor v. FAA - Update on Registration/DC SFRA Litigation
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 15  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, July 22 - 11:36 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online