RunRyder RC
 9  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1006 views POST REPLY
Scorpion Power GLOBAL 3D
HelicopterMain Discussion › Servos twitch or jump with Align 3gx system
01-29-2017 10:43 PM  4 months agoPost 1
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have two of these units. One on a TRex 600CF I converted to FBL and one on an Assault 450L. Both of them updated to v5.0. On both hell's the swashplate randomly jumps without being spooled up. I've gone through the dir mode on them and cannot see what could be wrong. On the 600 I've changed my power supply to the 3gx after noticing some of you having power issues. I'm running the original bec with a 1600mag 2s lipo attached. Seems to be plenty of power now, but still twitching. Any ideas?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 02:55 PM  4 months agoPost 2
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I found it not to be a problem in flight.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 03:00 PM  4 months agoPost 3
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Try grounding the negative lead to the frame - I've also heard (but never tried myself) - a copper sheet from the chrome case to the negative side of the circuit

Another post related to this issue. There are lot of other discussions here and on HF/RCU/RCG

https://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t756096p1/

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 03:37 PM  4 months agoPost 4
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Those (and that in particular) older threads seemed to be a wild goose chase looking for a static electricity problem. As old as those posts were, I suspect crappy power being applied, especially when one of the early V3.X software rollouts occurred which increased overall current consumption in the system to the point where a marginal BEC suddenly couldn't hack it with respect to current delivery.

As to the "glitching" he's seeing, I believe this appeared with V4.0 firmware. I also believe I'd seem some discussion on this topic back when it first showed up.

As I recall, this shows up when the system is powered up, just sitting there, doing nothing (I had seen it while setting things up using my PC). The discussions surrounding this "new" phenomenon explained it as being due to changes in the "new" software, and how the various gains had been changed (increased). You would see this behavior in a heli that was stationary, and the software was seeing static, non-changing inputs from the sensors.

When airborne, the ever-changing sensor data prevents these glitches from happening.

I had a dozen of these installed in everything from 250s up to a 700N, all had been updated to V5.0, and all flew very well with no unexplained problems.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 04:28 PM  4 months agoPost 5
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thank you all for your help. I just have the stock bec with wiring that came with it. I have a Castle Creation Talon 90 esc that had the built in bec. It looks like much heavier wiring to the 3gx. Maybe that would solve the issue completely?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 04:58 PM  4 months agoPost 6
Heli_Splatter

Elite Veteran

Silver Spring, MD by way of Sidney, Ne - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Wire size, in and of itself is no indication of available current. You need to check the output of your devices. Amp rating is a measure of how much current is available. Check the literature on your products.

FBL requires more current that a FB helicopter. 1600mah seems rather rather small, for example I am flying 3300mhr 2s battery on my electronics and servos. For the price of a battery, I do not want to loose an aircraft.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-30-2017 05:03 PM  4 months agoPost 7
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

sometimes it can be a faulty wire for one of the DSM satellites too

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 04:47 AM  4 months agoPost 8
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I was wondering if the Talon 90 would have a better power supply than the external bec. Together with the heavier wiring and a 5000 mah 6s 50c battery would provide a lot better more stable power supply than the factory bec? Maybe you all prefer the external bec with the second on board battery?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 05:24 AM  4 months agoPost 9
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think you are using the RCE-B3X that came with your 600. That is a 3 amp BEC and very marginal for a 600 FBL heli. Do not attempt to fly using it.

The Talon 90, on the other hand, is a 20 amp peak, 10 amp regulator, very capable. Plus, you can wire it to use your 6S flight pack and eliminate the 1600 mah 2S pack altogether.

If you were using the Talon 90 as your ESC, and a separate regulator at the same time, and did not remove the red wire from the Talon 90 RX plug, that would have been a problem, as you would have wired two different regulators in parallel, and they aren't designed for that kind of operation.

Use the Talon 90, and ditch the RCE-B3X.

By the way. I looked at your gallery. Did you actually fly that 600 as you have it pictured? The flybar paddle sticking out front is on backwards. That should have made for some weird handling.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 05:45 AM  4 months agoPost 10
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've never flown it. I've only flown a couple flybarless heli's (blade 230s and 450x). When I bought this unit the person I bought it from had a 3gx new in the box he sold me with it. I bought the rest of the flybarless parts and removed the flybared head.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 05:59 AM  4 months agoPost 11
helidevil

Elite Veteran

Brunswick, ME

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

How is the system connected to your radio? Satelite rx or full size rx?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 08:59 AM  4 months agoPost 12
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Two satellites.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 09:19 AM  4 months agoPost 13
helidevil

Elite Veteran

Brunswick, ME

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Are you able to use a full size receiver, or SBUS from a futaba rx?

Along with a low voltage supply, Bavarian demon doesn't play well with satellites. I spoke with the owner about this problem (my spectrum satellite/BD system was having the same glitch you describe) he commented how satellites are not meant to be used as a primary receiving source. When they are, weird things happen.

He also mentioned the best signal is PPM into the unit. May not apply to your 3GX, double check facts.

After switching to SBUS, no more twitch/glitch. I suggest using a full size rx SOMEWHERE in the system if possible.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 10:23 AM  4 months agoPost 14
Vaderluck

Senior Heliman

Melbourne - Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I used to have 3GX (V5.0) installed on both TREX 600N and 700N using Castle Creation 20A BEC. One has regular random twitching the other don't. It probably does not affect the flying at fast speed. But it is very disconcerting when you flying slow and at eye level, you can actually see/feel the heli twitching.
I ended up replace both with GPRO and have very happy with them.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
01-31-2017 01:09 PM  4 months agoPost 15
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is not a radio or satellite induced problem. When V4.0 software was rolled out, the mysterious twitch appeared. It remained in V5.0.

At one time I had 12 3GX units installed, all with V5.0 software. I still have some installed and operating, notably in a couple of Trex 600N helis.

All had countless hours flying, all without incident. The twitch looks to occur in the ground when the heli is stationary. What Vanderluck says he experienced in slow flight, I would guess was not the twitch, but something else. Whether I'm hovering, right side up or upside down, flying slow or fast, I see no evidence of twitches in flight.

I did upgrade a large number of 3GX to GPro, but it was due to the availability of a bluetooth programming pod, not weird behavior.

Contact RR member "Coolice" about this. He was (is) an Align pilot in the UK. He and I discussed this when 4.0 rolled out.

You could revert to the last of the V3.X software versions, which worked well and didn't twitch. If you do, you can't use DSMx, you will use DSM2, but performance is fine.

The 3GX works fine with one or two satellite receivers.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-01-2017 05:48 PM  4 months agoPost 16
icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

some people use the batt and throttle input pins to add another jr connector to help get the gyro all the power it can use. It's a y cable from external bec (wish I could remember how it went exactly).

funny, I just thought about the internal bec on my 450 45amp yep that goes straight in the throttle pins Suppose it had an external bec, could the esc only transmit throttle signals on the s wire and receive bec power outboard while outboard bec power can be fed in the the throttle power supply pins +/- (and battery pins on the bottom row) to guarantee the 3gx has good power supply. You'd still need the - wire to ground the throttle's s signals to the esc controller.

from the sounds of the read it's a 3gx anomaly regarding the twitch.

After I ordered some new sat wires my 3gx powered up quicker, try replacing the sat wires with the shortest ones between sats and 3gx and really, the stock spektrum wires work, doesn't mean they can't be better. My replacement sat wires are thick as servo wires.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-01-2017 06:33 PM  4 months agoPost 17
NQNA

Elite Veteran

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Every time that I have seen this problem it was due to low voltage applied to the 3GX unit.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-01-2017 08:35 PM  4 months agoPost 18
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I already have that CC Talon 90. I need to get the motor set up with 5.5mm bullets though. I believe they are 4mm now. Then it can be installed and it sounds like should have plenty of power and fix my problem at least on the 600.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
02-02-2017 12:08 AM  4 months agoPost 19
icanfly

Elite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

there are some (most) that will tell you the 90 is not enough for the 600. It's a safer rig to run outboard bec and life/lipo for rx/servo power. The 90 on it's own might work for a 550 and is intended for a 500. Your inboard bec is getting less power than the rated 20 amps at full power to a 600 heli, be careful. a 100 or 120 amp is the proper esc for a 600 without sharing the load with an inboard bec. I think castle publishes a chart to show what available amperage is coming from their bec's under different voltages, do a search. Look for the original motor specs and how many watts it draws at full bore and peak, then you get the proper esc for the motor always going more amps not less or borderline.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
02-06-2017 01:14 AM  4 months agoPost 20
_dloe_

Heliman

Winton, Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

One other thing this 3gx did to is to blink all the green lights after twitching. Not sure if this helps determine the exact problem or not. I have a 2s 1600mah attached to the original bec. I see most people are using a larger battery than that it seems. Maybe a larger battery is all I need? Maybe I need to ditch all the original electronics that came with this and upgrade it to something better?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1006 views POST REPLY
ProModeler Scorpion Power
HelicopterMain Discussion › Servos twitch or jump with Align 3gx system
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 9  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, June 27 - 11:17 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online