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Scorpion Power GLOBAL 3D
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsBrain iKon › Brain behavior and Governor Settings (Resolved, sort of)
01-22-2017 03:17 AM  5 months agoPost 1
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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HI all,

I finished setting up the Brain2 and Hobbywing 130 ESC today. I have several issues:

1. I give it any cyclic input and the swash comes back to neutral slowly with no input. Is this normal in a FBL? Rescue and Autolevel are off in all banks;

2. Cant seem to able to get governor working on bench. The "normal" curve seems to work fine, but when I flick the bank switch where I have the governor "on" it definitely does not keep a constant RPM. It keeps jumping around really wierdly.

3. In the Governor pane (12):
3.1: What numbers are supposed to be in the range min max?
3.2: What is "Sensing Divisor"?
3.3: Mah Correction factor?
3.4: When saying Governor speeds, I assume this is main rotor RPMs (i.e. 1800, 2000, 2100)
3.5: Current Speed: Is this main rotor RPM (1800, 2000, 2100) or is it the motor's RPM? It shows a wierd number 6554 or something when I give it 100% throttle on the bench on my normal curve.

I have the ESC in Heli Linear with AFW disabled. Using the Brain's softstart (I think).

Thanks! I really need some help in order to be confident enough to try to fy.

Franz

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01-22-2017 08:08 PM  5 months agoPost 2
pctomlin

Veteran

Texas

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The swash returning to neutral on the bench after giving some cyclic input is normal.

Panel 12 the min/max numbers are the lower and upper signals sent from the Brain to the ESC. You need to set up the throttle range for the ESC with a linear curve before activating any governor settings in the Banks. Panel 5 sets the inputs to the Brain from the transmitter, panel 12 sets the signal range the is output from the Brain to the ESC.

When running an electric motor the sensing divisor is the number of motor magnetic poles divided by two.

MAH correction factor is there for telemetry adjustment for battery MAH adjustment according to what the charger put back into the battery. This way you can accurately fly by MAH used instead of by timer etc..

Speeds set in the boxes are the head speeds you want in each flight mode. Actual speed shown in the panel should match the imputed desired speed in the box if everything is set up correctly.

Once everything is correct in the governor panel 12 you can go to banks and activate governor by checking the box and then set the correct throttle curve parameters in the transmitter for each flight mode RPM. Typically IU2 is set to 85% instead of 100%. This is done in case governor signal is lost and will limit head speed to 85% of range instead of going full available speed.

Hope this clears some things up. The instructions in each panel are very helpful and if you hover the mouse over a lot of the input boxes or tag name for it an information box will pop up also.

Why is it someone so bad at being in charge......... wants to be in charge so bad?

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01-23-2017 12:16 AM  5 months agoPost 3
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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A lot of help

Thanks. This is actually a lot of help. Will try to setup again and will come back with follow ups. Thanks again!

Franz

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01-23-2017 12:40 AM  5 months agoPost 4
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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Current setup

Ok. Esc throttle endpoints set without governor activated in any of the banks (1080-2110). Main gear ratio 10.19, tail ratio 4.67. My curves are normal 0%-100%, IU1 70%, IU2 85%. I have put 5 in the Sensing divisor (10/2) for a 520 Scorpion motor. Motor is Electric is turned on.

When i go to turn on the governor in the banks, in order to see the difference while testing I put 1500/1800/2000 in each bank respectively and turn on governor in all three banks. When I try the bank switch, it does change from Setup 1 to Setup 2 and Setup 3 in one of the panes, so it is working for changing the banks. I also have the aux switch active eventually for rescue -100 to +100 and is set to -100 (off). Rescue is NOT activated in any bank.

When I go to bench test, the governor does show its "engaged", but the headspeed shown on my iphone is all over the place. Its not on 1500, 1800 or 2000 depending on the bank. Furthermore, when I change banks I dont notice a change in headspeed, where I should (1800-2000 for example). I feel like my idle up curves are the ones dominating and not the governor. Any ideas?

Franz

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01-23-2017 04:32 AM  5 months agoPost 5
corywrx

New Heliman

Texas

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Did you set endpoints for the gov?

It's the slider on the gov page, I think it usually starts at 1000min 2000max.

A quick Youtube search can show you how if you haven't done it yet.

It's important that you set the endpoints for your ESC first in conjunction with Brain endpoints, however it looks like you've done that already.

A rough explanation : REMOVE ALL BLADES FROM THE HELI. Set a throttle curve in the radio as linear. Use that setup and bring throttle all the way down. In the gov page, set your current setup gov speed to something like 5000. You do this so the gov doesn't limit you. Change it back after you are completely finished later.

Now, with throttle all the way down - increase the MIN until the head starts turning, then bring it down 1. Now gov knows the minimum throttle point.

Next, slowly increase throttle to 100%. Look at the RPM reading near the bottom of the page. Increase MAX until RPM no longer goes up, then decrease by one. Now the gov knows the maximum throttle.

I hope this was clear enough, this is how I fixed the issue you are having when I had it as well.

Be safe!

Gaui X3 Stretch - Futaba 10J - Citizen 799

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01-23-2017 07:05 AM  5 months agoPost 6
ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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In your "Norm" set the throttle curve to a flat line at 40% The 0 to 100 is used for setting ESC end points, but after that it should b set back to 40% to 45%.

Enable the gov & bailout in all banks.
But, pick one bank and stick to it for your testing.

Check the RPM on the Brain. Hook it to the Windows app and open the Gov screen.
The RPM read out is on the bottom. You should see it lock into the selected RPM as you change the light mode switch on the TX.

Set the Brain to log all the throttle sensors. That includes the gov engage, the RX throttle out and the Throttle Channel out.

Then, look at the real time logs as you run the heli on the bench.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
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01-23-2017 03:00 PM  5 months agoPost 7
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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ESC Endpoints

Thanks for the advice. Will try as soon as I can. I'll keep you posted.

Franz

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01-23-2017 11:08 PM  5 months agoPost 8
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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Speeds

So if I understand correctly, the three speeds you have to input in the governor pane, correspond to each flight mode setting in the Tx (Normal, IU1 and IU2)? They have nothing to do with the Setups or banks that I also change in the Tx on a different 3 pos switch?

If that's the case, I now understand the need for 40, 70, 85 flat curves in each flight mode, so that they activate the governor in each speed. I was under the wrong impression that the change in headspeeds was with the change in banks, not flight modes. Sorry for that.

I haven't gotten to the logging yet, but it looks very promising for diagnostics!

Will try again and let you guys know.n Slowly but surely.

Thanks again!

Franz

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01-24-2017 03:33 PM  5 months agoPost 9
ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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So if I understand correctly, the three speeds you have to input in the governor pane, correspond to each flight mode setting in the Tx (Normal, IU1 and IU2)? They have nothing to do with the Setups or banks that I also change in the Tx on a different 3 pos switch?
Basically, that is correct.

Your flight mode switch on the TX allows you to change things like throttle curves, exponential, dual rates, gyro gain - and a few other things. On the Spektrum radios, this is "Norm", FM1 & FM2.

The value of the throttle channel is how he Brain decides which of the 3 RPM speeds have been selected.
0 to 50% is RPM1
51% to 75% is RPM2
76% to 100% is RPM3
I set Norm to 45%, FM1 to 70% and FM2 to 85%.
Keep in mind that as the head speed increases, thing like tail rotor gyro gain should decrease, expo may need to increase and DR may need to change.
You could (hypothetically) leave the throttle curve at the same value for two or three FM settings while you change expo / DR or gyro gain.

The banks on the Brain are selected using a "spare" channel on the TX (EG: like aux3). On my DX9, I use a 3-postion switch on the front.
You can enable gov on a bank by bank basis.
But, there are a ton of settings that you can also change on a bank by bank basis.
I use banks to experiment with different gains on cyclic as I am tuning. But in the end, I end up flying one bank 90% of the flights.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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01-24-2017 11:06 PM  5 months agoPost 10
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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Pole Count

The motor is a Scorpion 520 with 10 poles in the spec. The Sensing Divisor in the Brain2 should be set to 5 (10/2). In the ESC (Hobbywing 130 v4) there is a field when using the wifi module for porgraming that says RPM indicator. It asks for the gear ratio and the Pole Count. This Pole Count is 10 right? Not 5! Does the ESC need this info for sending an accurate RPM signal, or is it just to show us the RPM on the graph.

Thanks again.

Franz

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01-24-2017 11:22 PM  5 months agoPost 11
ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I do not use a HW.

I "suspect" those details are used for the HW's internal governor and/or logging.
It would not be needed for the pulses coming on the external RPM lead.
That is how the Castle Creations ESC use those details.

The pole count and gear ratio needs to be entered into the Brain gov section.
The Brain governor, logging and the data stream back to the TX (if you have telemetry) would use those details for controlling the ESC

The Brain expects to get the exact pulse counts coming from the ESC.

But, try it with no pole count in the ESC
The worst case is that the head speed is too slow.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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01-25-2017 03:48 AM  5 months agoPost 12
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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I am stumped!

1. Set Brain throttle end points at 100% on Tx and on Brain
2. Set ESC endpoints (HW 130 v4) with governor cable disconnected and governor OFF in all setups on Brain with a 0-100% curve on Tx
3. Set ESC to Heli Linear and AFW OFF. Also tried with AFW enabled and also fixed wing
4. Set throttle in Governor pane on the Brain until it starts spinning and max (1220-2100). Seem higher than other things I've read.
5. Set throttle curves in Tx 40/70/85 flat.
6. Connect RPM out to Brain Gov in.
7. Turn on governor in all setups with 1800 in all speeds for testing.

will try to post video tomorrow but RPM goes up and down in a cycle. Super weird. The RPM reading on the Brain app is all over the place.

Could this be a bad ESC in terms of the RPM output? It's super strange. Any and all help will be appreciated. Don't know how to download logs yet, but I did turn them on.

Thanks.

Franz

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01-25-2017 04:42 PM  5 months agoPost 13
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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01-25-2017 04:53 PM  5 months agoPost 14
ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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You need to make sure the Brain "sees" 100% throttle coming from the transmitter

On page 5 of the Windows app (Basic), all of the channels that the Brain sees are shown.
As you move the sticks on the TX, the sliders on page 5 should move 100% and match the direction of the stick's movement (cyclic stick left, slider left. Throttle stick full down, throttle slider at 0%).
You will have adjust the servo travel limits on the TX to get the Brain to the maximum slider travel.
On my DX9, I have to increase the servo travel to between 125% and 135% on every channel.

The HW should have an "External Governor" mode. Or, look for a "Multi-Rotor" mode. This provides instantaneous throttle reaction as the throttle-in signal changes.
If you are planning to use the Brain's gov, this is mandatory. The Brain will need the HW to react instantly to changes in the throttle signal it is sending

But, at this point, I may have run out of advice. I do not have a HW.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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01-25-2017 04:59 PM  5 months agoPost 15
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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Thanks!

Thanks for the help. I did set the endpoints in the Tx so that the Brain sees 0%-100% when I move the stick. Same thing for all other channels.

I am suspecting it is an RPM out issue, although I don't know how to see the logs. I posted the question on another thread in case you can help me out with this. If I see the logs with RPM in, throttle out, etc. maybe I can pinpoint the problem.

In the meantime; i'll try to setup the ESC's governor and see if she flies.

If anyone has had this problem (or similar) and solved it, I would appreciate the help. Brain2-HW130v4.

Thanks again.

Franz

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02-03-2017 03:36 PM  4 months agoPost 16
CostaRicaHeli

Senior Heliman

Costa Rica, Central America

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Solved with RPM phase sensor

I decided to try an external phase sensor. I hooked up the hobbywing phase sensor to the ESC leads and then to the Brain2. The RPM was steady and read-outs were good compared to what i had programmed, 1800 and 2000 rpm.

This proved that the RPM signal coming from the Hobbywing 130 V4 ESC is indeed corrupted. You'd think that for a $200 plus ESC, that there would be no issues with this sort of thing, especially considering that the sensor costs $5.

Maybe Hobbywing reps can chime in, but after I had trouble with it, more research uncovered more people with this problem on the V4s. Unfortunate to be sure.

Franz

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02-03-2017 04:23 PM  4 months agoPost 17
ticedoff8

Key Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I was reading in a different thread about HW using opto-isolated connections on the throttle and gov.

The solution to the HW "corruption" on its RPM signal may be to run a black ground wire from the HW to the Brain's gov port's ground pin.

Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.
Fake News will be the downfall of our Republic!

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsBrain iKon › Brain behavior and Governor Settings (Resolved, sort of)
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