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HelicopterHIROBOHirobo Turbulence › Turbulence d3 start shaft shimming??
12-18-2016 09:45 AM  11 months agoPost 1
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Hi guys, I need your help here... I've just flown for the first time my Turbulence and I noticed some things around the start shaft...

1/ When starting the engine the start shaft will go up eventhouh there is no play at rest which brings up 2/

2/ The manual recommends putting a rubber o-ring between the clutch bearing and the dogbone pin. After the first flight it must have melted because that area was heavily smoking... after disassembly the plastic coupling was all chewed up...

My question is how did you guys shim the dogbone area so that the pin goes deep enough in the coupling? Is rubber ring ok?

Thanks guys!

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12-18-2016 10:20 PM  11 months agoPost 2
payne1967

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uk

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mine is as per the instructions
please note never use the align super starter on the turbulence or you will have the plastic connector being chewed up
I only ever made this mistake once

www.alcesterhelicopterclub.bmfa.org

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12-18-2016 10:47 PM  11 months agoPost 3
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Thank you Payne, I'll leave it like this then. Thanks for the tip, which starter are you using or recommend?

I went flying again and some more smoke came out from the clutch after landing and it's worrying me. I'll take the engine out again tmr to see what the hell is going on here. The only things that could get hot there are the clutch and clutch shoe but it smelled like burning plastic... I'll keep you posted.

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12-18-2016 11:47 PM  11 months agoPost 4
payne1967

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uk

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I use a Sullivan dynatron
I borrowed the align starter the once when the engine stopped at the flight line, never again

it sounds like you have oil or grease on the clutch liner
and the clutch is slipping

www.alcesterhelicopterclub.bmfa.org

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12-19-2016 12:36 AM  11 months agoPost 5
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Cool, I'm going to get one of those. Would be using the included rubber coupling with a hex start shaft ok or should I get one that screws on the starter?

I'll check any signs of over heating. Since the engine is new I was just hovering at 1650 rpm so there was not any "3D" kind of load on the clutch... I'll check it anyway, I never fly anything I don't trust

Thanks a lot

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12-19-2016 08:38 PM  11 months agoPost 6
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Ok so I've taken the engine off and found that the o-rings have split and one of them must have fallen in between the clutch shoe and clutch thus melted. That would explain the smoke... We can actually see melted debris stuck on the clutch surface. The pin must have crushed them.

I'll try to find some washers with the outer diameter close to the inner one so that they clear the inside of the clutch shoe's plastic coupling.
Here's what happened to the coupling after using an align starter twice...

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12-19-2016 09:15 PM  11 months agoPost 7
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Well after further inspection I found out that two screws holding the plastic coupling were bent aaaand one of them broke inside the fan stand... obviously the plastic coupling is busted so I've got that going... that was an expensive flight!

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12-19-2016 09:41 PM  11 months agoPost 8
fastrc1

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Brooklyn, NY-USA

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test test

RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.
Team SRW Comp
Zeal Blades U.S. Flight Team
Team Futaba

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05-01-2017 01:45 PM  6 months agoPost 9
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Guys I need your help again, I have a Dynatron starter now but the start shaft plastic coupling got chewed up again, breaking two screws in the clutch this time... I don't know what to do anymore as I've built the start shaft assembly EXACTLY as per the manual! did you turbulence gurus do something special to it?
Please help, it's the third time I'm taking the heli apart, getting sick of it!

I have an OS 105 on it, brand new, with a total of 0.4mm shimming on the head to decrease compression.

Thanks for your help

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05-01-2017 02:45 PM  6 months agoPost 10
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Do you need to hit the starter for long periods of time or over and over again to start it? The little adapters are good for a couple hundred flights at least. That's what I had on my last one.

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05-01-2017 02:56 PM  6 months agoPost 11
gdesdigu

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China, France

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The engine had trouble starting after a long period of shelf time, it wasn't getting any fuel, the inside of it was dry like a bone after a few cranks (drs pump faulty?) but I never spun it more than a few seconds at a time. The dynatron is on 3S lipo.

the coupling cracked before I had a chance to start the engine btw.

Did anybody have problems with the drs regulator on their 105's? I opened it and everything seems fine...

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05-01-2017 03:02 PM  6 months agoPost 12
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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The machine was designed for a 91. A 105 wasn't available when that start system was created so I'm sure the designer didn't consider degradation of the coupling to be an issue the 91 as essentially it is a sacrificial part. I realize you are having a problem but there is not really anything you can do at this point other than adapting a standard clutch and start adapter to the model.

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05-01-2017 05:30 PM  6 months agoPost 13
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Wow, it seems so obvious but you're right TMoore, I'll swap the 105 with the one on my Vibe to continue the breaking process until it loosen up a little more. I have added a 0.2mm shim on top of the stock 0.2mm shim on the engine head and the coupling still cracked...
How do you convert it to a conventional one way bearing system, is it possible?

Thanks for the advice

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05-01-2017 05:44 PM  6 months agoPost 14
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Lowering the compression isn't the answer, you could add shims until it won't start and it wouldn't matter. The material that the start adapter is made out of has to change. Delrin isn't hard enough for a 105. Aluminum that was surface treated with hard silicon would hold up longer but would require constant lube or you could just consider the adapter a wear item, buy a bunch of them and change them out from time to time. My first one lasted about 12 gallons and it needed to be replaced on a 91HZ.

You'll have to look at the frame design and figure out if there are any parts in the stock catalog of Hirobo items that you can adapt to the TD3 V1 to convert it to a standard start config. I've got two of the models and plenty of start adapters so I'm set and it's not a worrisome enough issue for me to engineer something different so I'm standing pat.

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05-01-2017 06:57 PM  6 months agoPost 15
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Yes I see what you mean, it's just one of those parts that need changing from time to time... I'll order a bunch of them this time.

Did you also put o-rings as per the manual or shims? My o-rings split from the dogbone compressing against them almost immediately after spinning the starter. From then on the dogbone is able to shift upward and is engaging on the coupling's screw heads thus breaking them off from the higher moment (I got two broken screws stuck on the flywheel as we speak)

thanks for the help, I'll eventually be able to fly the sh*t out of it one day!

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05-09-2017 03:47 AM  6 months agoPost 16
Agilefalcon

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Fort Worth, Texas

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I have never used the rubber o-ring!

The fix is easy....

Use a glow plug washer - it fits perfectly, and provides the proper spacing.

It also won't damage the bearing.

Chris

Chris Berardi
Team BobbyJack's Hobbies

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05-19-2017 07:23 PM  6 months agoPost 17
Bugcatcher

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Perth, Australia

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I find that you need to be careful not to over-tighten the bolts for the plastic coupling. The plastic is quite soft and will deform the the two slots for the dog bone. Then it will be harder to fit the engine. Instead of just nicely fitting up easy it will almost feel like it 'clicks' into place instead.

Could be why your o-rings split in the first place as you were pressing them together because the dog-bone was not going into the slot nice.

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05-19-2017 07:43 PM  6 months agoPost 18
gdesdigu

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China, France

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@agile falcon I've never thought of that! I'l try it if I need to shim it after a test, now I must have an alignment problem as the flywheel grips the clutch real bad. I don't have time for the helis right now, will see in a couple weeks

yes bug catcher, they are snug with a touch of loctite, the dogbone fits perfectly

thanks guys!

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08-30-2017 05:22 AM  85 days agoPost 19
mainblades

rrApprentice

Tucson, AZ USA

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There is an adendum to the manual!

Know your post is a bit dated though there was an adendum to the D3 manual which addresses this issue.

Greg Bartel
AMA 70898

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09-17-2017 04:55 PM  67 days agoPost 20
gdesdigu

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China, France

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Mainblades thanks a lot, this is exactly what I ended up doing anyway. The copy of the manual I have did not have this addendum.
Now I know...

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