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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › RC Aerodyne Bell 429 flight characteristics
12-15-2016 07:04 PM  11 months agoPost 1
Tim W

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Rancho Cucamonga​California

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Okay, I was just wondering if this is just one of the flight characteristics of this heli, or is there a solution to overcome it? I have an 700 size super scale Bell 429 that is actually manufactured by Roban Models distributed by RC Aerodyne. My issue is while in level flight it wants to drift to the right. My swashplate is perfectly level and my gyro settings are correct. Has anyone else experienced this problem? And if so, what measures were taken to overcome it?

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12-15-2016 10:40 PM  11 months agoPost 2
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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Ah my friend, you are experiencing translation tendency. its a natural thing in all helicopters that have a main rotor and a tail rotor (including the notar)
see, the trust that that little rascal the tailrotor is producing isn't only correcting for torque, its at the same time ttrying to push the whole heli to the right ( or left depending on the direction of the main rotors) to equalize this, the pilot is feeding the opposite direction of cyclic pitch to keepit from drifting to the right. when everything is equalized, the heli will have a slight tilt in one direction or as we say it will hover one skid low.
now keep in mind, in the calmest of conditions a perfectly trimmed heli will not stay in the same spot unassisted because its own rotorwash will interrupt it so I have always said never waste your time trying to get the heli to sit motionless on its own because that's time wasted flying it yourself
now those stab systems completely changes all that especially the gps equipped ones

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-15-2016 11:26 PM  11 months agoPost 3
Tim W

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Rancho Cucamonga​California

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Yeah I get that. However strangely enough I also fly a 700 size Bell 206 Jet Ranger that does not seem to have this same flight characteristic as my Bell 429. Now there are a few differences. The first being my Bell 206 has a two blade main rotor head, while my Bell 429 has a four blade rotor head. Another difference are the mechanics. My 206 is Align, while my 429 is Roban. Both helis are using the same gyros though.

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12-16-2016 12:50 AM  11 months agoPost 4
Grimracer

rrVeteran

Eau Claire WI

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I would check the phasing and maybe just check over the servo's on the swash.

Michael J Zaborowski

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12-16-2016 01:12 AM  11 months agoPost 5
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca.​USA

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If it's not drift like the Doc suggested, X2 on the phasing...
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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12-16-2016 02:26 AM  11 months agoPost 6
Tim W

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Rancho Cucamonga​California

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I don't want to sound ignorant, but phasing?

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12-16-2016 07:24 AM  11 months agoPost 7
goodhunting

rrApprentice

Slovenia ...​somewhere in Europe

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It will be easier to explain on the two blade head...

If you look at your swash and main head... the link connecting the two is at 90 degrees... so when the swash moves it takes 90 deg of rotation to move the blade...
this is called "mechanical phasing"...
most all the new FBL controllers enable electronical phasing, when you set the link btw swash and main head straight up and down and then adjust the phasing in the software to do the same as described above...

to check for correct phasing... you do the "blade above the tail boom test"...

since you're having issue with 4 blades... a video is worth more than a thousand pictures...

Watch at YouTube

I am assuming that you have mechanical phasing in your set-up....
check if the above described "test" works as it should on your helicopter...

we'll help from here on...
gh

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12-16-2016 07:54 AM  11 months agoPost 8
Andy01

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Brisbane, Australia

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Do the two helis have the same size tail blades ? I would guess that perhaps the 4 blade might have larger/longer/wider tail blades than the 2 blade, and probably more thrust (to counter the additional torque from the extra blades). More thrust = potentially more sideways thrust of the heli.

My EC-145 has 150 x 41mm tail blades to counter the 4x 820mm mains, and it has a surprising lean to it. I adjusted the setup to minimise the sideways drift a bit, but the lean is still there.

Colin

Vario Long Ranger 700e
Seahawk 600
UH-1N 500
Baumann EC-145 800+ (coming soon )

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12-16-2016 12:25 PM  11 months agoPost 9
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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I adjusted the setup to minimise the sideways drift a bit, but the lean is still there
that lean will always be there.
I personally don't believe phasing causes drift, not in a hover, input may be offset a certain amount but it shouldn't be the reason for drift. I think the flight controls just may not be trimmed as needed to hold the machine in place. there should be no difference as to the type head or number of blades or the type or design of the mechanics. I say spend a little time trimming the machine and see if that stops or reduces the drift. hopefully you will have a calm enough day or spot to do this.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-16-2016 02:32 PM  11 months agoPost 10
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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I understood this as drift in level flight..

Forward flight? Sounds like it.. Phasing and servo operation would be a good checkover.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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12-16-2016 03:48 PM  11 months agoPost 11
heliwreckr

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Battle Creek,​Taxigan

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Is the rotor clockwise rotation

It's not crashed 'til it hits the ground

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12-16-2016 03:55 PM  11 months agoPost 12
Tim W

rrNovice

Rancho Cucamonga​California

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I believe the rotor direction is counterclockwise. And yes, while flying in level flight going forward I have to counter slightly with left cyclic. And the tail rotor is a four blade.

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12-16-2016 05:12 PM  11 months agoPost 13
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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Make sure when you ONLY give forward cyclic that the blades.. (two of them) that are are aligned front to back (right over the tail boom).. they DO NOT MOVE.. they should remain dead still.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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12-16-2016 07:03 PM  11 months agoPost 14
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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OK i misunderstood this to be in a hover. I still say trimming the model may be in order. It won't be an issue if you use a separate flight mode for hover and forward flight like I do, then you can trim each separately from each other. Phasing will throw directional control off for hover and fwd flt if it's not adjusted correctly.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-16-2016 07:37 PM  11 months agoPost 15
heliwreckr

rrApprentice

Battle Creek,​Taxigan

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Could the cg be slightly off to the right ??

It's not crashed 'til it hits the ground

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12-16-2016 07:53 PM  11 months agoPost 16
Tim W

rrNovice

Rancho Cucamonga​California

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I never thought about CG being off to the right? But it's pretty evenly balanced. And Copter Doctor this drifting issue is both in a hover and forward flight

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12-16-2016 09:41 PM  11 months agoPost 17
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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Have u tried simply trimming the model for a best hover? I know some stab units (if you're using one) makes it a little difficult to do while you are hovering but that's worth a try first and that's providing your phasing is correctly set. If you are using robsn head with the "J" arms your phasing should be fine.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-16-2016 10:05 PM  11 months agoPost 18
Tim W

rrNovice

Rancho Cucamonga​California

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No I have no tried trimming the model in a hover. I figured the Gyro would fight it if I did?

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12-16-2016 10:14 PM  11 months agoPost 19
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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No it shouldn't. Some like the demon require trim changes to be made in the unit instead of the trims on the radio (I hate that) but I would get the model trimmed for a stable no drift (as close as u can get it anyway) hover first.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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12-16-2016 11:53 PM  11 months agoPost 20
Tim W

rrNovice

Rancho Cucamonga​California

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Copter Doctor that just might be the ticket

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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › RC Aerodyne Bell 429 flight characteristics
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