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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
10-22-2016 12:54 AM  13 months agoPost 21
Magnumeng

rrVeteran

29 Stumps, CA

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Not sure if you have run the number through

With a castle gov(not sure if it is what you are using)
Low - 1572
Mid - 2133
High - 2246

Lowest bogging - 2027

Align
70% - 2105
75% - 2168
80% - 2232

Lowest bogging - 2027

TDR, Kontronik Kosmik Cool 200, Kontronik 750-56, CGY750,
Team KBDD

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10-22-2016 01:51 AM  13 months agoPost 22
Koopyetz

rrNovice

Rochester,NY USA

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I have a Hobbywing 50a ESC . Took all factory settings which include gov ( elf).

Thank you for numbers you provided . I believe my current TC setting of 0, 60,60,60,60 is lowest I should go so HS number will come from that setting. I will also know soon maximum flight time.

Rick

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10-22-2016 02:56 AM  13 months agoPost 23
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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it may be a good idea in future to get used to flying with TH and using idle 1&2 for if you decide to do loops later on

spending time, paying attention

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10-22-2016 12:59 PM  13 months agoPost 24
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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I like your idea, Thank you. Something to progress to.

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10-22-2016 03:21 PM  13 months agoPost 25
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian,​Mississippi

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This thread has made me consider testing 2S batteries in one of my 450s. Problem is, I have about 6, 3s pack all in good shape.

Further, I've been playing with Graphene batteries and I like 'em. Any experimenting I do with a 2s set up would require buying new batteries. I don't have a problem with buying new batteries but I'd like to keep my Graphene experiment going. Sadly, they don't make a suitable 2s Graphene battery.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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10-22-2016 04:56 PM  13 months agoPost 26
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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Your post about graphene batteries got me researching these types. I will keep an eye out for these , perhaps they may yet make a suitable 2s.

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11-30-2016 02:55 PM  11 months agoPost 27
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Your setup will max out at around 2150 rpm with a fresh pack. At 60% throttle curve will be much lower than that, maybe around 1600!

I once 3D'd my 450 with a 2s 5000mah pack (no canopy on obviously!) at 100% throttle.... it worked but notice I said ONCE!

A 3200-3500mah 2s pack should weigh the same as a 3s 2200mah pack. Should be good for at least 12 minutes hovering and gently circuits.

You can always use 2 smaller 2s packs in parallel if you can't find the size you want as most tend to be wide and flat.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-30-2016 03:49 PM  11 months agoPost 28
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian,​Mississippi

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Well this is a bit of a hijack but I think it's close enough to on target....

I have been running my Tarot 450 on a traditional 3S but I've been using a Scorpion 2221-12 motor and 16T or 17T pinion (I don't remember which). I own a Scorpion 2221-6,8,10,12 but I have the -12 installed at the moment. The -12 motor is 2580KV. While others have been been trying to build 450s for higher and higher head speeds, and harder and harder smack, I've found enjoyment in trying to tune the heli to better match my personal needs.

I get a very enjoyable 8 to 10 minutes of semi-vigorous flying. Running a 2580KV motor in a 450 using 3S is somewhat similar to running the same helicopter using the 3595KV 2221-8 motor with a 2S battery.

I also have a Thunder Tiger E325 V2 FBL with a Tarot head and have the -6 motor installed in it. While the Tarot 450 and Thunder Tiger E325 helicopters have very similar servos (MKS), ESCs (CC), blades and both have Futaba 750 FBL controllers, they fly nothing alike.

Scorpion 450 motors:
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catal...2&p13=70&p14=71

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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11-30-2016 04:01 PM  11 months agoPost 29
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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Richardmid1
I'm wondering if I could continue to lower TC . Currently at 4 min 15 sec
flying time with easy ff and turns. Thinking of lowering TC at 1% increments til 55% checking motor and ESC temps as I go.
Thanks for the LiPo in parallel suggestion.

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11-30-2016 04:03 PM  11 months agoPost 30
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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wjvail
Hijack away. Appreciate different views of thought.

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11-30-2016 04:19 PM  11 months agoPost 31
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I'm wondering if I could continue to lower TC . Currently at 4 min 15 sec
flying time with easy ff and turns. Thinking of lowering TC at 1% increments til 55% checking motor and ESC temps as I go.
You should be getting way more than 4 minutes, what pack are you using?

Go as low as you like on the TC but I would have thought you were low enough head speed wise. As the motor and ESC will be more efficient at higher TC's you will reach a point of diminishing returns. Consider dropping to an 11T pinion and upping the TC.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-30-2016 05:21 PM  11 months agoPost 32
Koopyetz

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Rochester,NY USA

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2s lipo is only 2600 mah . My thought on lowering TC was my curiosity as to lowest limit to flyability. Will be doing two 2s in parallel and also look for 11t pinion.

Thank you for the suggestions.

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12-01-2016 11:39 AM  11 months agoPost 33
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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You will find that once you get the pack weight to the usual 180-200g your HS will drop due to the increased pitch needed to hover and you may have stability issues. There will be a sweet spot but you first need to get the pack weight around 180-200g to get the CG right.

It will be interesting to see what flight time you get. My guess is around 15 minutes. Also as the pack will be discharging very slowly it would be ok to take the pack down to 10-15% to further increase flight time but as you aren't using a governor just remember that your head speed will drop off throughout the flight.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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12-01-2016 12:52 PM  11 months agoPost 34
Jerry K

rrKey Veteran

Houston Area

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Began experimenting with 2s battery . Set TC at 98 to start and got helicopter to hover. Will continue adjusting TC and making adjustments as needed.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT???

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12-01-2016 01:05 PM  11 months agoPost 35
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT???
Longer flight times.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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12-01-2016 02:33 PM  11 months agoPost 36
jerrit1

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Baroda, Michigan -​USA

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It's comical that so many people think the only thing a CP heli is useful for is flying 3D.

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12-01-2016 06:52 PM  11 months agoPost 37
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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That's what makes this hobby so great is the wide range of technology, applications and models.
Some are into 3D others scale , And the styles and the personalities of the pilots and their desires.
I wouldn't it call it comical that many are only interested in 3D flying

Myself I seek efficiency and endurance and redesign what is required to obtain those goals, My fun comes from witnessing theory becoming reality
and the end product being something you can possess.
The other part flying starts to get boring unless I set a goal for myself.

spending time, paying attention

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12-01-2016 07:04 PM  11 months agoPost 38
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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Blade sizes will greatly affect your efficiency

for example on a 600N running a 55hz with 600MM blades I get about 8-10 min flight.
I changed the blade size to 550mm and increased flight time to 12-16 min just by changing blade size
the trade off is > It feels Heavy so you have to compensate for the weight
If you find a way to lighten the frame and/or electronics
Then you end up with a very efficient 30/50 size model

spending time, paying attention

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12-02-2016 02:11 AM  11 months agoPost 39
Jerry K

rrKey Veteran

Houston Area

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WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT???
Longer flight times.
I do not fly 3D!

Lower voltage does not guarantee longer flight times. Volts X Amps = Watts. You fly on Watts, you don't fly on Volts. If you reduce the Volts the Amps goes up in proportion. Like was stated above if you want longer flight times lower the head speed. Drag is equal to the square of speed. So if you want to go for a longer time slow down don't reduce the voltage, all you are doing is raising the amperage. Change the ratio or KV to slow head speed.

Go to 1S and you could fly even longer. Or put a 5 gallon gas tank in your car.

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12-02-2016 08:12 AM  11 months agoPost 40
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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. If you reduce the Volts the Amps goes up in proportion.
IF your keeping the same power output yes, but we are not! We are not changing the gearing to keep the same head speed here!

You are right in saying it's mainly down to head speed but you just can't get a small enough pinion to bring it down and a new lower kv motor is costly. The other reason dropping the voltage is better is you can carry more capacity for the same weight pack. It's win win if longer flights is what your after.
. Go to 1S and you could fly even longer.
That is actually true but not many 1s 6600mah packs out there! Plus I think 2s is the lowest recognisable voltage for the esc.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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