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HelicopterMain Discussion › What is F3C muffler ?
09-16-2016 11:43 PM  9 months agoPost 1
Vaderluck

Senior Heliman

Melbourne - Australia

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Come across a Hatori pipe #562 for F3C. Sound like a dumb question to ask, what make a F3C pipe different from 3D pipe ?

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09-17-2016 12:49 AM  9 months agoPost 2
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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I dont know, but I bought that pipe for my 105HZR and it is fantastic.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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09-17-2016 12:53 AM  9 months agoPost 3
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Since F3C does not specify any mufflers or anything about mufflers, I can't help you.

Probably just another manufacturer trying to cash in on the alphabet soup game.

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09-17-2016 01:18 AM  9 months agoPost 4
Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Look at the difference in the baffle spacing:

http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/HP3/heli-e.html

The F3C Muffler is actually a muffler and not a pipe. It is much easier to tune and quieter. I have the #562 and bought it because it was recommended by a UK flyer as very quiet.

Hey, Ask Dr.Ben. It is the same difference as between the F3C and 3D pipes for the larger engines - 105.

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09-17-2016 03:47 AM  9 months agoPost 5
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Mr. Hatorri never used a different numeric designation or description for a pipe if the pipe was not different in design in some way. His FAI variants would be expected to be tuned for an extremely smooth hover and as noted by Richard, similar outward appearance hides changes made internally to any tuned exhaust effect. "Peakiness" or a narrow rpm range for greatest power are less desired in an F3C muffler.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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09-17-2016 10:59 PM  9 months agoPost 6
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Interesting suppositions but where is the meat of the matter ?

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09-18-2016 01:33 AM  9 months agoPost 7
Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Well you would need to X-ray both a 3D and F3C pipe to actually see the difference. But you doubt the reasoning ?

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09-18-2016 01:47 AM  9 months agoPost 8
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Well I lied anyway. I have a #546 called a 50HNS-2. Same idea though. The Hatori inventory is shrinking.

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09-18-2016 02:39 PM  9 months agoPost 9
allupndown

Senior Heliman

U.S.A.

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According to Hatori the 562 is classified as a muffler and a muffler only unlike the tuned pipes they did manufacture or continue to manufacture. This information is on the Hatori website. It sounds to me like the afore mentioned explanations are right on the money. Raw power enhancement is traded off for lower noise.

lots of assembly required

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09-18-2016 06:40 PM  9 months agoPost 10
Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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Our friend Nob X-rayed some Hatori tuned pipes which have a cone inside. I have not seen an X-ray of a "muffler" but suspect that mine is just an expansion chamber muffler with baffles. I do not know the difference between a 50HNS and 50HNS-2. I believe when I bought mine there were no 55/56/60 engines.

A Hatori tuned pipe operating at the correct rpm is extremely quiet (as were the Curtis pipes). The loudest pipes ever made were VTech.

But nitro is going away.

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09-19-2016 01:18 AM  9 months agoPost 11
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Granted, there are different types of exhaust treatments, but what characteristic(s) cause a manufacturer to call it an "F3C" muffler ?

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09-19-2016 02:05 AM  9 months agoPost 12
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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Generally, a 3D flyer will operate his heli at one rather high rotor/engine speed. Therefore his exhaust system will have an internal baffle system that has a relatively narrow band tuning for a single high engine speed

On the other hand, most F3C helis will use two different head (engine) speeds. One for the precision hovering maneuvers and a higher head speed for the "upstairs" aerobatics. Consequently, their exhaust system will require an internal baffle system that is relatively more broadband, to accommodate both.

Phil

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09-19-2016 03:29 PM  9 months agoPost 13
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Well that's nice . . . but do the manufacturers admit to that or is it up to the consumers to "assume" ?

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09-19-2016 04:09 PM  9 months agoPost 14
Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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The manufacturer can call a muffler anything they want. Here in the USA there are only 18 FAI flyers and they all know Hatori. Now if you buy an F3C muffler from China, it could be anything. On the other hand, there is no requirement in the FAI to hover or fly at any particular rpm.

EDIT: The #546 is just slightly smaller than the #562 which is designed for the newer 55/56/60 engines. Same muffler concept.

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09-19-2016 04:52 PM  9 months agoPost 15
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Ironically, you won't see any newly evolved FAI mufflers and engines for the same because the use of nitro in F3C and AMA class competition is about as extinct as the dinosaur. The new FAI schedules are so power demanding that you would be hard pressed to drag the model through them and achieve the requisite size and symmetry.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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09-19-2016 05:01 PM  9 months agoPost 16
Four Stroker

Elite Veteran

Atlanta

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What Ben said. Kind of like semi blades. But semi blades would be great for a camera ship. This is a moot thread.

One more thing. It looks like there will not be any more nitro mufflers/pipes ever made. If you want to fly nitro it is time to stock up on engines and pipes.

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09-28-2016 05:10 PM  9 months agoPost 17
Felino

Senior Heliman

Mexico city

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Perhaps you are right. There will be no more development on glow engines/pipes for helis. I would love to see fuel injection for helis but with the current market being so small I think it will not happen any time soon.

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