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Blade 400 › Tail Wag Issues
07-22-2016 07:07 PM  16 months agoPost 1
helicopterjeff

rrNovice

Suffern, NY

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I've been flying for 20 years. My daily flyer is a pair of T-Rex 500s and they fly perfect.

I picked up an abandoned Blade 400 that had a bad tail wag. Swapped the gyro and server, no change.

Picked up a Trex clone yesterday, same exact size (guessing 450- which I've owned) and it has the same exact problem with a totally different gyro and servo.

Ive searched the forums and can't find a solution.

There is no wag at spool up but once off the ground The tail is uncontrolable, back and forth etc.

I'm opening this new thread because no one has an answer I can find and I have an idea I want to try and run by you guys.

What if the issue is the size of the tail blades?

20 years ago we didn't have heading hold/lock. we just had a rudder input curve to auto add input as the head speed went up. but having tried align, futaba and blade gyros on the same heli, i get the same result which tells me its not the electronics.

The belt tension is right, no binding, gyro is in head lock and also remotely adjustable (no settings work) and during spool up but before getting light on the skids I have complete control of the tail. After lift off it all goes pear shaped which is what has lead me to thinking maybe there isn't enough thrust from the stock or "right sized" rudder blades and the gyro is trying to compensate.

so the thing im going to try is two fold, 1- slow down the head speed and 2- use larger tail blades.

Thoughts? Am I way off base? Lets get this fixed!

Thanks!

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07-22-2016 07:56 PM  16 months agoPost 2
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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so the thing im going to try is two fold, 1- slow down the head speed and 2- use larger tail blades.
You can certainly try that but it might make the problem worse. I'll just throw some 2 cents ya----> The machines your flying on the daily have more precise linkages than the 400 = less slop. I would try higher headspeed and smaller tail blades first and make sure the belt doesn't have an extra twist in it, I had that problem before and it drove me nuts till I figured it out.
You are certainly not lacking in experience but it's all too easy to miss one little silly thing that can make a big difference. Post a video of the wag if you can--it may help.

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07-23-2016 04:12 AM  16 months agoPost 3
old nitroman

rrVeteran

Naples florida

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You could bring in the ball on the servo move closer to servo hold down screw, if the horn is too long you can get way too sensitive.

E5s and E7se,and a 766, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380and 420 ,180cfx

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07-23-2016 10:24 AM  16 months agoPost 4
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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if the horn is too long you can get way too sensitive.
Absolutely , I would try that first before anything else, it'll only take 2 minutes

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07-23-2016 11:01 AM  16 months agoPost 5
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian,​Mississippi

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There is no wag at spool up but once off the ground The tail is uncontrolable, back and forth etc.
Are you SURE it's not set up backwards? Wagging is one thing but uncontrollable back and forth is another. Again, are you sure right is right and left is left. This has to be set twice. Once for how the stick inputs respond and once for how the gyro inputs respond. It sounds like your stick is set up correctly but your gyro is backwards.

I'm just taking pot shots with little information to go on but it sounds to me like you got something not set up correctly.

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

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07-24-2016 11:43 PM  16 months agoPost 6
helicopterjeff

rrNovice

Suffern, NY

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Excellent ideas. I did try different blade sizes, no go. Different head speeds, no difference.

Didn't think to even check the belt twist. Gonna check that next.

The Heli is somewhat controllable which tells me the rudder isn't reversed but I could try reversing the gyro's servo setting.

Destroyed a servo trying to set end points on the gyro today so I may not have a response until next week. Going to try moving the ball link closer to the servo center too. I think it was in the middle before I toasted the servo

I'm certain it's something dumb. It always is.

Thanks guys. I'll update when I get a chance to try your ideas.

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07-25-2016 01:08 AM  16 months agoPost 7
pH7

rrKey Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI​- USA

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Don't reverse the gyro direction switch and try to fly, check the gyro direction on the bench. This is my process for both Tx channel check and gyro direction check.

Step 1 - Make sure that the tail is turning in the right direction. If not, your belt has the quarter twist in the wrong direction. [How to check - if the leading edge of the main blades are moving forward, the leading edge of the tail blades should be moving forward.]
Step 2 - Check that rudder stick input gives the correct tail pitch change. If not, reverse the rudder channel in the transmitter. [How to check - if you move the rudder stick to the right, the trailing edge of the tail blades should move to the right of the helicopter.]
Step 3 - move the tail of the heli and observe the tail motion to see if it corrects to bring the tail back. If not, flip the "Reverse" switch on the gyro. [How to check - If you move the tail to the right (nose left) the trailing edge of the tail blades should move towards the right of the helicopter.]
After you have ensured the correct direction for all the above, in that order, then there should be no problem on lift-off.

Phil Heavin

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07-28-2016 03:39 PM  16 months agoPost 8
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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gyro is in head lock and also remotely adjustable (no settings work)
Could you explain further? What gyro and servo? Check that the gain numbers you are adjusting in your TX are ACTUALLY altering the gyro gain, you can check this by going really low and really high on the gain and observe the tail pitch slider or tail servo for more/less movement when rotating the heli by hand.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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07-28-2016 04:06 PM  16 months agoPost 9
helicopterjeff

rrNovice

Suffern, NY

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It's an older align gyro, don't have model right off hand. I have tried the dual rate with both extremes and neither made a difference. Also tried unplugging the remote gain from the rx and that didn't help either.

Ill have more details saturday.

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07-28-2016 04:33 PM  16 months agoPost 10
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Dual rates have nothing to do with the gyro gain. What TX do you have and which channel is the remote gain lead plugged into in the RX?

I think unplugging the gain lead just pegs the gain at 100%.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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07-29-2016 12:17 PM  16 months agoPost 11
pH7

rrKey Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI​- USA

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Have you tried my steps (above)? Especially step #3 - you should clearly see the tail blade pitch change when you swing the tail left, right. If not, then your gyro gain is not right. Check your monitor screen on your transmitter to make sure the gain channel is at the value you expect for your gyro.

Phil Heavin

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08-16-2016 04:10 PM  15 months agoPost 12
old nitroman

rrVeteran

Naples florida

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wonder if he got it fixed?

E5s and E7se,and a 766, Roban bell 222 800 superscale,450 bell 4 bladed head,gobby 380and 420 ,180cfx

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01-08-2017 08:31 PM  10 months agoPost 13
helicopterjeff

rrNovice

Suffern, NY

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I haven't gotten this fixed yet. Sadly work takes priority. However every time I give it thought I'm drawn to the tail servo.

I swapped servos on my Trex 500s and the wag appeared. Difference? The tail servos.

Once the weather here in NY clears up that's the first thing I'm going to try.

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