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HelicopterMain Discussion › AMA Issues HOLD OFF Registration!
12-18-2015 08:13 PM  22 months agoPost 21
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Look at the media sensationalism. The demonization is all MR/FPV. They don't show a guy flying a scale Piper Cub who crashed his airplane into a car. They don't care about us.

Going toe to toe with a reactionary public to protect everything that flies may feel like the "morally" right to do, but that's arguable and it's a losing strategy.

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12-18-2015 08:19 PM  22 months agoPost 22
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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Are you directing that at me? If so look at what I said. First I said I agree. The news has always showed multis. As far as distancing goes I can see both sides of the fence. AMA is damned if the do and damned if they don't

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 08:19 PM  22 months agoPost 23
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I'm directing it for anyone.

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12-18-2015 08:21 PM  22 months agoPost 24
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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How are they damned if they don't?

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12-18-2015 09:19 PM  22 months agoPost 25
helidad325

rrNovice

Lackawanna NY usa

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I think a portion of the current mr/fpv population are also registered ama members. They cant really shut the door on them. Its a hobby for them too. I think this close minded and grumpy stance at flying fields and clubs has sent a fairly large number of these guys to fair on their own. All i need to envision this is my first attempt at joining my ONLY local club with a helicopter in tow. The grumpy plane guys wanted to whip and stone me....so is this a good stance on muliti's? We essentially created the lone yahoos doing stupid things. I am a hobbist that does not fly multis and never has....just how i see it. The statis que of standoffish and disrespectful club members isnt going to cut it anymore. Embrace them and teach them the right way....because there isnt going to be a difference in the eye of law makers.

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12-18-2015 09:22 PM  22 months agoPost 26
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Your anecdote contradicts mine. Our field, for one, didn't have a single quad pilot show up until they were already a huge PR issue. And still we accepted him as basically a "heli." Other members who flew airplanes recently tried quads and weren't chased off. I'm not sure how other fields stories went, but I have trouble believing any narrative that we turned them away to go start spying on people and flying into the paths of airliners. That narrative seems very effect-cause to me. Even if there were any truth to that, unwanted heli pilots never went so rogue despite barriers to entry from airplanes. So this blameshift doesn't work.
....because there isnt going to be a difference in the eye of law makers.
This is where I disagree. But, we'll never know because this has never been a policy we've pursued. All we know is what we've got, not what could have been.

I also challenge anyone to prove that any sizeable portion of the AMA membership would drop AMA if they did what they had to to secure basic rights for the membership. If that's who they were, well, not sure I care. I'm of the mind that we can survive without them, but not with them, if that makes sense. Yes, this makes me grumpy.

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12-18-2015 09:27 PM  22 months agoPost 27
Cra-Z-1

rrApprentice

Washington,UT-USA

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I'm of the mind that we can survive without them, but not with them, if that makes sense. Yes, this makes me grumpy.
Who is "THEM"?? Do you think that everyone on this forum is a HELI "ONLY member? What you fail to see is what you make your enemy..and also what loses members of your interests as well..I'm appalled by the things that are said on this forum..and my MAIN interest is in Helis

Ban the Ban.

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12-18-2015 09:30 PM  22 months agoPost 28
LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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If I understand him right he also said there was hobbyist that own both and are part of the AMA. I know some like that too. That's kind of like saying Harley riders are not motorcyclist and shouldn't belong to the American motorcycle association. Not picking on the Harley riders here just an example. We will get through it.

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 09:32 PM  22 months agoPost 29
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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LaDon, OK going with your analogy.

This would be more like if there were lots of public complaints about loud motorcycles that was threatening the whole of motorcycling, and people in the motorcycling association started singling out Harleys while others said no they are a part of us.

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12-18-2015 09:52 PM  22 months agoPost 30
LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Ok make it to what you want. Look first I hate the things as bad as you. I aways have. Here is the deal. They are not singling out the mutis. Whether you like or not. 2 reasons and first is that is discrimination They are not going to put themselves into the position where that could be a problem. Even if it wouldn't be. 2 is the loss of revenue. They aint giving that up no matter what. It takes money to operate and that is all there is to it. What happens with your posts is you go off the wall into a rant and wont drop it. That is why no more than 6 ppl signed your petition. Lets work on constructive stuff that can be done not what we wish but cant and wont. I have contacted congressmen and they said that there are ppl that just go off on a tirad about this stuff. They are not listening to that. Let work on stuff and presenting it in a way that they will listen and harping on the same thing time after time after time is not going to work. Believe me I and others would rather work with you than against but you have got to get off of it and work with ppl. This isn't going to cut it. Sorry I had to put it this way and I mean nothing personal by it and I mean it I would rather work with you but you make ppl work against the way you are going about it.

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 09:53 PM  22 months agoPost 31
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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You all are appalled at my position, likely because you see it as selfish. I could just as easily argue that the opposite position is selfish. For example, if after all this battling, the AMA came out and said they would be able to secure rights for fixed wing only, but all rotory craft would have to register, I'd be disappointed but I would understand if they conceded it as a partial win. Again, I challenge anyone to prove that any sizeable portion of the AMA membership would drop AMA if they did what they had to to secure basic rights for the membership.

Wouldn't an all or nothing approach by a subsection of pilots who refuse to concede any ground whatsoever for the good of the whole be the true selfishness? This is my opinion.

So, you all are appalled at my stance and I at yours, basically.

Only difference is, my position isn't the one being sought. So what have I other than expressing distaste at my disempowerment? If I were on the winning side I'd be the one comfortable, seeing people raging against the plan of action, being able to simply tell others to shut up and go home, you're selfish, etc. etc. And thus we're all at an impasse. But don't hate me. Recognize I'm simply doing what the other side would in my position.

I'm already in the losing position. And if you're right, and my words will change nothing, just let me rage in peace. LOL

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12-18-2015 10:31 PM  22 months agoPost 32
banshee rider

rrApprentice

n.e. illinois

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♦Aaron29
You can spin your words however you feel to justify your rant
and you seem to be real good at the spin part

but the bottom line is that myself and numerous other people
think that you have gone way overboard with your ranting and bad mouthing the AMA

The AMA officers do the best they can with what they have
and it cant happen overnight especially when dealing with the government

The last I knew they are all volunteers
That have lives also

You have backpedaled ignored and side stepped almost everything directed at you that didn't/doesn't fit your agenda

Whatever your "agenda" is I don't know because it seems to change by the hour whenever somebody calls you out on something

And now your no doubt going to try and take credit for whatever action the AMA takes unless there not successful
then you will go back into full rant mode again

I don't think I will be saying much on this anymore
because I know your going to keep on ranting just like
the Ninja Keyboard Warrior/Troll that you are

There I called you some more names

Keep on playing your passive aggressive games and

GO TELL MARK see what he thinks about it

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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12-18-2015 10:33 PM  22 months agoPost 33
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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passive aggressive
You do not know what this means.
but the bottom line is that myself and numerous other people
think that you have gone way overboard with your ranting and bad mouthing the AMA
Ah yes, the old, "we do not like to hear any dissent" position. Come on, man. If that were sufficient to silence there'd be no debates.
And now your no doubt going to try and take credit for whatever action the AMA takes
Are you kidding? If they have ANY change in course whatsoever that results in a win it was not Aaron29 that made it happen it was a deluge of complaints. Will I cheer it? Sure. Do I think I "own" this position? Heck no. It's been blasted at AMA for days now by others.
Whatever your "agenda" is I don't know because it seems to change by the hour whenever somebody calls you out on something
As for hidden agendas. Ridiculous. I have no hidden agenda. I have a very outspoken agenda. I want AMA to cut the crap, circle the wagons, and protect the majority core of its membership to the maximum extent possible, even if by doing so it comes at the expense of the drone segment. Period dot. How that could be construed as some nefarious hidden agenda is beyond me. It's right there in your face. Right from the beginning. Transparent as all get out for everyone to see and attack. Hidden agenda. Sheesh.

Go ahead and call me the names. I know what their purpose is: to silence. Because you don't want to meet words and ideas head on. You just want them to go away.

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12-18-2015 10:41 PM  22 months agoPost 34
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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We'll see there is the problem. You are saying I am appalled at your position. I am not sorry if that appalled you but I would love nothing more than to see multis gone. BUT IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!!! Sorry to burst your bubble on that. Not only that even if the AMA threw them out (which once again ain't gonna happen) it solves nothing. Rogue multi pilots are still gonna be out there doing what they are doing and the FAA is still gonna throw us into the pile. You may think different but government don't work that way. Just ask the NRA.

I tried being decent about explaining that going off the handle wasn't gonna solve anything. I also said it wasn't personal. I would think you would take it as tho I was trying to help. I guess I was wrong. I would think that only getting 6 ppl to sign your petition you would figure out that most don't agree with the method. I think they agree with the result if it could be done but not the path to get there.

In the end I hope ppl reading this will get ahold of their congressmen. That is what I did. I couldn't believe it when they called me about it and they listened. Everyone needs to do that and let the AMA handle what they need to. I have seen posts where congressmen from other states are willing to listen. Get ahold of them. They just might be on our side. Some may not.

Sorry Aaron but if you think I am appalled I am not in the least. I would love to see them gone but I am being realistic. Too big of business for that to happen now.

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 10:41 PM  22 months agoPost 35
Cra-Z-1

rrApprentice

Washington,UT-USA

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It seems to me that every side of the argument is on the extreme. The solution is Simple! The reaction by the FAA to get something out by Christmas for FEAR of all these drones in airspace, is what has led to what we have seen with the blanket laws for everything.

Its not "everything" that has caused the problem. The LOS flyers havent caused the issues everywhere, whether with planes, Helis OR quads. Its pretty simple fact that people feel their privacy has been invaded by the use of Cameras attached to drones flying FPV. You can argue automation at this point..but again..its the pilot flying in back yards and flying in illegal zones via FPV (beyond line of sight) that has caused all this uproar..simply because of the range involved, and what you can achieve with it.

A "simple" set of rules needs to be required WITH a proper "License" and safety course for anything that is capable of live video that is capable of BLOS. Same kind of thing as with HAM radio...I dont see why that would ever sound unreasonable..then it would seem that everyone would be happy. I would be happy to comply with that. As it turns out now..Even WITH this phony registration..nobody really has to read/understand the rules, they just pay some entity money to be "legit" when there is NO real value added.

Its not right to make everyone pay for the irresponsible actions of a few..but that seems to be what we are all about anymore.

Ban the Ban.

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12-18-2015 10:54 PM  22 months agoPost 36
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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Its not "everything" that has caused the problem. The LOS flyers havent caused the issues everywhere, whether with planes, Helis OR quads. Its pretty simple fact that people feel their privacy has been invaded by the use of Cameras attached to drones flying FPV. You can argue automation at this point..but again..its the pilot flying in back yards and flying in illegal zones via FPV (beyond line of sight) that has caused all this uproar..simply because of the range involved, and what you can achieve with it.
Well said. And if we had distanced ourselves from this crap(FPV) we might have had an argument.

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12-18-2015 10:57 PM  22 months agoPost 37
Cra-Z-1

rrApprentice

Washington,UT-USA

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Well said. And if we had distanced ourselves from this crap(FPV) we might have had an argument.
I'm hoping they find a way to separate it out..otherwise it seems like insanity and everybody pays the price.

Ban the Ban.

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12-18-2015 11:02 PM  22 months agoPost 38
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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Yep but the good ole government way is blanket party everyone and beat them with an oar and then say yep we got em!! Believe me I work for a small part of government and that is how it is done

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 11:25 PM  22 months agoPost 39
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Well, I for one could get behind a plan of action that protects the LOS modeler and redirects regulatory focus onto FPV. It's the FPV that presents the privacy issue as well as has a very expanded flight envelope that tends to get them into trouble. Question is, like LaDon says, is a policy like that even possible anymore?

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12-18-2015 11:32 PM  22 months agoPost 40
helidad325

rrNovice

Lackawanna NY usa

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I admire your ferver and willingness to do something. But like someone mentioned, these things are everywhere and casting them out is not gonna work. Plenty of die hard heli guys are racing quads on the weekend now. Are they banished as well or do they get a pass. The problem is that there really is no easy way to do what the guv is looking to do. Nobody yet has come up with an idea that will logically and systematically stop "rouge drone pilots" from doing stupid things. So we are gonna get blanketed by legislation. If i put a camera on my goblin it is now a drone....no doubt about it. They need to regulate but no One has a good way to do it. Not that ive heard at least. Casting them out of the ama is silly, thats exactly what we shouldnt do it. I fly a plane and a Heli on private property, so no I will not be registered either way. Fwiw I strongly dislike quads in general but my feelings do not matter to whats important.

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