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HelicopterMain Discussion › AMA Issues HOLD OFF Registration!
12-18-2015 12:32 AM  22 months agoPost 1
Mike0251

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Hills of the Blue Ridge VA

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Nyot posted this in the main thread. Thought it needed immediate notice with a new thread!

AMA says hold off regestering until appeals court ruling filed in August 2014
Dear AMA Members,

Yesterday, the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of all model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.

AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA's safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress' intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft."

The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA's petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA's interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft." The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.

In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA's reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court's immediate attention to AMA's petition.

While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations. Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA's members strive to be a part of the solution.

As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.

Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.

In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA's interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.

Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.

Kind regards,

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12-18-2015 02:52 AM  22 months agoPost 2
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Hmmm........................

I also just received this. Looks like AMA is still trying to get some accommodation for their members.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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12-18-2015 03:07 AM  22 months agoPost 3
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Note that the petition to the court was submitted in AUGUST. Those who believe the AMA isn't trying, don't really understand how things work at all.

The AMA has been fighting for the hobby again and again. But keep those letters and phone calls to your Representatives and Senators.

And when the FAA has to open up for the comment period, comment, keep it clean, keep it factual, and keep it sincere.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-18-2015 03:12 AM  22 months agoPost 4
LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
Mark, do you believe me now? I wasn't so silly after all for calling it a direct violation of SEC 336, was I? The same goes for you, Rick.

I encourage everyone to pay more attention to the law from now and less attention to the agencys' FAQs, brochures, and help sections. If a document doesn't have an OMB number, it's not an official document (see 44 U.S.C. § 3507(a)(3)).

I copied this quote and post I put up from another place.
I hope you read it and listen to the congressman

An appeal or lawsuit does not mean they have won. It is however another opportunity to win tho. AMA had no choise but to do this. That had to or otherwise if it wasn't it the end of AMA it sure was going to stick a dagger into it. They hadn't done anything and didn't try membership and faith in them was gonna go to an all time low.

Now I would still contact your congressmen. I did send a letter to one of mine Tuesday night at 8 and at 7:30 the next morning I got a call. Couldn't believe it even tho it was just someone to set up a meeting or call. Today they called from Washington D.C. I about couldn't believe it. They have been following it and also had some concerns. We talked for prolly 20 to 25 minutes. On thing I did ask was about the section 336 exemption and how they could just go against congress. They told me that they can do what they did under 2 reasons. 1 national security which in my opinion is just a crock and is bullsh$$. 2 is for the safety of the ppl such as the drones in plane paths. Unfortunately a few instances has not helped there. They said if they use one of those reasons they can even if it is not viable.

Now if it goes to the Supreme Court I would think our chances were pretty good. They have to go by the constitution and the law usually. If the appeal is held with the FAA I wouldn't get my hopes up to high. One thing I have found out in working for a government agency is they will never admit they were wrong. They also said that like just him can't reverse it. He will need help from other congressmen so if I was you guys call them or email. Do a good job of explaining how and what we need to do to help this.

We will end up conceding something prolly but hopefully it is something that dosent matter to us hobbyists. I am pretty much guessing the commercial side is going to get some regulation in some way shape or form. Even tho that will suck for some ppl it will at least it would be a win for the hobbyist. Personally I would just as soon see them keep their noses out but that ain't gonna happen.

The congressman I contacted is willing to work on this. But he needs help he can't go alone. He needs all your congressman too. Contact them. See what we can do. Don't wait for the appeal that is only a 50 50 deal and if AMA luck is like mine that just went down to 90 10

Team Jr

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12-18-2015 03:59 AM  22 months agoPost 5
Aaron29

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USA

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Those who believe the AMA isn't trying, don't really understand how things work at all.
I hear you. My mistake. It's just that the utter silence (aside from "disappointed" ) for three days plus the capitulation-style responses on their Facebook had me thinking otherwise. Now that we're getting steady comms, concrete instructions, a firm stance, and messages about future planning from AMA, I feel much better.
And when the FAA has to open up for the comment period, comment, keep it clean, keep it factual, and keep it sincere.
You'll have to forgive me. I'll have to compromise on the sincerity a little to keep it clean.

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12-18-2015 11:13 AM  22 months agoPost 6
EEngineer

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TX

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As Gary just mentioned, I have also received the email from the AMA that says to hold off registering your aircraft.

The AMA email I received was "signed" by the entire AMA Executive Council.

Via this thread, I think the AMA heard us "loud and clear".

And that's a good thing.

But.....

Please send emails to Senator James Inhofe(R-OK)...whether you are among his constituents or not. Support his efforts for supporting our hobby...and castigate the unelected bureaucrats and that political hack Huerta(FAA Administrator) for Huerta and the FAA's "thumbing their noses" at Senator Inhofe's legislation....that is Federal Law....for the FAA's malicious and capricious encroachment into our hobby is clearly unconstitutional.

Politics in DC is a dirty business, and I feel the AMA Executive Council should take off the "kid gloves" and get "down and dirty".

The AMA, for decades, has a community presence in all 50 states...and even our territories.

If the AMA members.....150,000+ strong....spread over 50 states...via our AMA leaders...made it known...to DC....diplomatically...that......

The AMA membership will work to "endorse" political candidates that support us...and at the same time will work to defeat any and all political candidates that want to regulate us and "extort" our hard earned money....whether local, state, or federal candidates.

While our rights to develop model aviation are not specifically mentioned in the Bill of Rights such as in the 2nd Amendment, the AMA should adopt fighting the unelected FAA bureaucrats using the tactics of the NRA.

Our hobby and passion for our hobby is at stake....

With the AMA's STEM program, the promotion of food drives by most AMA sanctioned clubs for many years......not to mention that RC is a multi-billion dollar industry...DC bureaucrats still don't get the message.

By contacting Senator Inhofe...whether you reside in OK or not...we all can make our views clear.

You can't fight the FAA....we need to enlist the help Senator Inhofe to represent our interests....and if he helps, he should be given an AMA life membership, etc....if not, well it's time for him to "retire".

That's how the DC game is played....it stinks...but that's the way it is.

Politicians don't disregard 150,000+ voters in all 50 states.

The AMA membership can wield a big political stick in DC.

I realize that the AMA has avoided politics prior to this.

But now, given the FAA's total disregard to the federal laws of our land, our hobby's existence is now in jeopardy.

The AMA leadership must draw a "line in the sand".....to combat these feckless, unelected bureaucrats from destroying a multi-billion dollar industry.....employing 1000's of people.....and destroying the education of our youth...and our efforts to provide food for those that have encountered hard times.

If any of "youse guys" know Trump...lol....invite him to your field....give him a flight...."schmooze" him.

Trump will use this to demonstrate the fecklessness of these unelected bureaucrats that are destroying our nation....not a Trump endorsement, just that he makes the news....

When we....the AMA members....are encouraged to send emails to the FAA...it should be clear to us now....that the FAA doesn't give a "two sh1ts" about what we do.

And they will stomp on us like one would do with a cockroach....and will not even consider what they have done.

If you have the time, please contact Sen. Inhofe....again explaining to his office that the FAA....with that hack Huerta's consent....has ignored the legislation that Inhofe introduced in order to prevent these violations of our model aviation "civil" liberties.

FWIW

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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12-18-2015 12:04 PM  22 months agoPost 7
jharkin

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Holliston, MA - USA

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This is good news.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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12-18-2015 01:03 PM  22 months agoPost 8
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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"Three days of silence" cannot be construed as not doing anything.

Knee-jerk reactions rarely work. Being a bit more deliberative and planning a response works much better. Chances are those three days were spent with counsel, discussing and formulating response and action.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-18-2015 02:32 PM  22 months agoPost 9
banshee rider

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n.e. illinois

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dkshema
"Three days of silence" cannot be construed as not doing anything.
Knee-jerk reactions rarely work. Being a bit more deliberative and planning a response works much better. Chances are those three days were spent with counsel, discussing and formulating response and action.
-----
Dave
Oh my goodness you mean that all this crap thats been spewed
about the AMA on here doing nothing for us and having sold us out to the highest bidder for the past several days is just that CRAP

Next your going to tell me that Chicken Little AKA "#$%&^*9 was wrong along with a few of the other usual "rays of sunshine"
and the AMA officers were actually doing something for us

WOW Imagine that I never would of believed it

ageing is manditory maturity is optional

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12-18-2015 04:47 PM  22 months agoPost 10
Aaron29

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USA

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Knee-jerk reactions rarely work. Being a bit more deliberative and planning a response works much better. Chances are those three days were spent with counsel, discussing and formulating response and action.
Look back at my posts. My "knee jerk reaction" was to light a fire under everyone to individually contact their congressmen. And to tell everyone to hold off on registering while we fight it. That's exactly what the AMA is calling for now. Except I did it alone, without a panel of paid officers, and only took a day. So basically my "knee jerk reaction" yielded similar results to AMA's "three days of counsel." You'll have to excuse me if I withhold some applause.

What bugs me. I acted despite what I KNEW would happen to me here on RR. So go ahead, jam me back into the corner to be quiet. It's fine. Now that I see action, I'm MORE than happy to take a follower role. Because it's certainly easier to sit in a comfortable chair and yell at those who act than it is to take action and expend energy and receive offenses.

Like this one:
Next your going to tell me that Chicken Little AKA "#$%&^*9 was wrong along with a few of the other usual "rays of sunshine"
and the AMA officers were actually doing something for us
Namecalling? Really? I suppose I can excuse it...you probably just disagree with how I handled things and did that to make you feel better.

Oh wait, that's exactly what I did. I didn't like the way the AMA had handled this and did what made me feel better.

Guess we're not too different, you and me.

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12-18-2015 04:59 PM  22 months agoPost 11
Mike0251

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If anyone looks you will see 3 days worth of postings on the AMA website that "I" believe is the direct influence in getting further action and support from our organization (AMA). Only into day 3 was there any positive hope coming from them. Now that we the modelers have succeeded in the "call to arms" with them, I will continue to do all I can to support them as necessary. In my own opinion they were not planning something all along, you can see that in their replies to the postings. Regardless, join arms, and apply pressure as and where needed.

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12-18-2015 05:18 PM  22 months agoPost 12
Aaron29

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Careful, Mike, that sort of talk has a price.

That said, yes. Support AMA going forward.

But, folks, that doesn't mean sit and watch!!! The AMA is calling for individual action. If you wouldn't do it at my request, fine. But do it at theirs.

That means:

Don't register short of the deadline.
Contact congress.
Comment on the FAA site.

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12-18-2015 06:17 PM  22 months agoPost 13
Stephen Born

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...

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12-18-2015 07:12 PM  22 months agoPost 14
meowguy

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Saco, ME

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I received notice of this from our local club president. This is great news. AMA members are the responsible people in model aviation at all levels and this should be recognized by FAA.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

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12-18-2015 07:20 PM  22 months agoPost 15
Aaron29

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AMA members are the responsible people in model aviation at all levels and this should be recognized by FAA
The FAA is not going to recognize this distinction simply for being "in a community based organization." We continue to pursue policies that completely ignore the facts that drones are what's under attack, and advocating for them is an unwinning strategy. We will never know what the FAA might have recognized as distinct had the AMA not gone on record defending the drone near-misses calling the reports false, codified FPV rulesets, etc.

I'd "get over it," but the most current call to action letter appears to show continuation of this policy of trying to special plead a distinction solely based on membership. I predict and hope that there is currently intense political pressure for the AMA leadership to reconsider this policy.

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12-18-2015 07:46 PM  22 months agoPost 16
whirlyspud

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What exactly is a drone?

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12-18-2015 07:48 PM  22 months agoPost 17
Aaron29

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Please. Let's not be daft. A drone is a MR/FPV. Every time you hear the word drone, ask yourself, what do you picture in your head? An RC airplane? A pod and boom helicopter? Or a multirotor with a camera hanging from it?

It doesn't matter if you have an historical or individual answer to what you think a "drone" is. The public at large and everyone else has that picture. And that is all the definition required.

Now, did the media define that? Sure. Changes nothing. This has come to be the accepted definition of drone. Playing ignorant to what a "drone" is is way too old a strategy.

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12-18-2015 08:03 PM  22 months agoPost 18
Mike0251

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A drone? The weapon of choice that our current administration uses to kill people.

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12-18-2015 08:05 PM  22 months agoPost 19
Aaron29

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See but that's just my point. That's ignoring common usage of the word. Sure, the media defined it, but that isn't going to change. You have to understand how language is constantly subject to the laws of "normal usage" of terms. Just because it's wrong, doesn't mean that the "normal usage" of the term will not apply. If you'd asked in the 1800's about "Indians" in the American frontier, not a single person would play daft and say "From India?"

But we're trying that game here.

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12-18-2015 08:08 PM  22 months agoPost 20
LaDon

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Fort Dodge .Ia

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I will have to agree here. The way the public views it is what counts. You never see the news media showing RC planes or helis very often if ever. It is always the multi rotor.

Now as far as distancing? I see the point not to and one to do it. Kind of a double edged sword.

Team Jr

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