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HelicopterMain Discussion › "It's only 5 bucks!" - so why are people bent? Opinion thread.
12-17-2015 03:37 AM  20 months agoPost 1
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Do you think the FAA registration is a big deal or not?

I'm of the mind that it's NOT the end of the world. It's not going to stop me from flying or remaining in the AMA. It IS, however, a huge nuisance that I want reversed. I strongly oppose it for the following reasons:

1. -Your CC info must be added to a government website.

I worked for the military and had my personal information compromised multiple times by government employees. They are fallible people just like you and me. I don't appreciate my identity and livelihood at stake.

2. -You are on a PUBLIC registry.

Meaning anyone can know who any modeler is. In an era of tension between the public and drones, I don't want to be the local black sheep. I also don't want to take the blame for anything drone that happens in my locale. Imagine cops or angry neighbors arriving at your door asking about an incident you had nothing to do with. You are on a short list of suspects by registering while the true targets aren't.

3. -General opposition to Big Government principle.

Government intrudes into enough in our lives. In what's supposed to be the land of the free, they are seriously in the business of registering TOYS, now!

4. -The punishment does not fit the crime.

27000$ for failing to register. Up to 3 years in jail/$250 thousand criminal penalties? A guy on Flying Giants said it best - these are comparable to drug and child porn penalties. For failing to register a toy? This is excessive and will damage interest in the hobby.

5. -Opposition to ineffective knee jerk actions

This rule does nothing to solve the root problem. Idiots aren't going to register, or aren't going to label their models, etc. etc. And criminals? They will not register, or maybe register under a false ID, probably mine or yours, putting us at risk for prosecution. Only the good will suffer.

6. -The possibility that the small fee will grow.

Due to the possibility of your registration being stolen, there is a pretty high likelihood that the FAA will have to alter the registration to be a unique number for each airframe. This 5$ per pilot could very well become 5$ per model.

7. -Due to not directly addressing the problem, there may be heavier stuff that follows down the road.

Since this cannot stop neverdowells and criminals from acting stupid with models, the FAA and government may decide later on that not enough is being done. Then, regs. The FAA has shown that it's willing to resort to any tactics to get a law on the books. Who KNOWS what they will do when the drone incidents continue despite this registration. Remember, Section 336 sunsets, soon. By allowing this to go unchallenged, it emboldens the FAA to more infringement down the road.

So overall, this thread title was tounge in cheek. The outrage over this ain't about the 5 bucks. Heck, I'd pay $50 just to be exempted from the requirement!

PROS / CONS. Let's hear your thoughts?

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12-17-2015 03:48 AM  20 months agoPost 2
drdot

Elite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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Fwiw..

IT IS A HUGE DEAL...

Nose of the camel, don't you know...
If you think the govt. Will stop here, you also think all refugees are vetted...
Call your congressman....Call the AMA....do not let up until we have at least a day in court .
The FAA rolled the AMA, all the work done to try to exempt us was ignored.
If you doubt, wait till the first major drone incident....

John.

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12-17-2015 03:56 AM  20 months agoPost 3
classic

Elite Veteran

All over the place!

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I'm sorry I don't fully understand that are you saying if I go out to the local flying field and fly an airplane somebody can come give me a $27,000 fine if I'm not registered?

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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12-17-2015 03:59 AM  20 months agoPost 4
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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That's the civil penalty the FAA can levy on you. Criminal penalties go up to 3 years imprisonment and $250,000 fines.

Now, you're probably not going to have the FAA "ramp check" you at the local flying field just flying a normal flying day. Not that I know of. However, they have the option of using local law enforcement. And who knows how they'll want to flex their muscles at the advent of this. The threat exists, however small. That said, I'm not going to find out if they'd make an example out of me.

If you are unlucky enough to have an accident with property damage or injury and aren't registered? And they are somehow able to trace your model to you? God help you. I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE YOU. That's where the civil penalty would certainly apply and where criminal penalties could possibly come in.

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12-17-2015 05:39 AM  20 months agoPost 5
theriddick45

Veteran

United States

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Hummmm!! Let me get this straight. Do I have to register my helis? I don't own a drone. Why or what is this registration? Airplanes owners have to register too?

If so this is madness!!! Is a fricking toy... It should be for people that have cameras strap in the model not everyone!!!

Suzi Janis 800e & 700e 3blade both w/Ikon

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12-17-2015 05:44 AM  20 months agoPost 6
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I imagine this weekend as everyone checks the forums we'll get many more questions. We've been at this since Monday. If you're a little late to the game, yes, we have to register. Even planes and helis. Anything over .55 pounds. The "weight of two sticks of butter."

LOL. Seriously the FAA said that in Q and A.

From the FAA's eyes, anything RC is a drone. Not just quads and FPV. Pod boom helis and .40 size plankers are drones, now.

If you oppose this, please see my other open thread.

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12-17-2015 10:33 AM  20 months agoPost 7
EEngineer

Elite Veteran

TX

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That's the civil penalty the FAA can levy on you. Criminal penalties go up to 3 years imprisonment and $250,000 fines.
Come on, Aaron.

The FAA has no authority to assess any fine one anyone.

They are not a court of law.

3 years for simply not registering?

Get real.

Current LAW is that hobby model aviators are exempt from this FAA BS.

If you are "levied" or threatened with imprisonment, your attorney will make Huerta and his ilk look like the total fools that their parents created.

Now, the AMA has been threatened that if they don't fall in "line" with these arbitrary and capricious regulations....the FAA will use the power of all taxpayers income to the "feds" to run the AMA out of business.

When faced with this what can the AMA do?

No offense intended, but we all voted for this BS.....meaning we all voted for this corruption....both sides of the political "aisle".

And now we all have got what we voted for.

Get it?

LOL

PS, your questions are don't matter....because as far as things go...YOU are as bad as ISIS.

Get it?

Vote all these scumbag politicians out of office.

Logo 600SXs, 700XX, 800XX

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12-17-2015 12:05 PM  20 months agoPost 8
HeimD

Veteran

the great southwest

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2. -You are on a PUBLIC registry.

Meaning anyone can know who any modeler is.
Really? So, I'll be able to log in and see all the modelers who register with the FAA? Cool! I love having that access right now on the AMA website! NOT.

Look, I don't like this any more than anyone else, but quit sensationalizing things just for the sake of shock value.

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12-17-2015 12:10 PM  20 months agoPost 9
HeimD

Veteran

the great southwest

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Do I have to register my helis? I don't own a drone. Why or what is this registration? Airplanes owners have to register too?
You're really this clueless with the hardware you say you own in your sig line? Time to get on board with what's going on.

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12-17-2015 12:18 PM  20 months agoPost 10
jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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Another thread???
1. -Your CC info must be added to a government website.
So what? My credit card is stored by hundreds of online merchants, just like a couple billion other peoples cards are. Ive had it stolen two or 3 times, once from Home Depot, another from a certain hobby website. Cancel it, change all your cards and get the CC company to reverse charges. moving on...
2. -You are on a PUBLIC registry.
No, nothing in there about it being public.
3. -General opposition to Big Government principle.
Ok give you that, but in that case there are bigger fish to fry. Like maybe go oppose the Patriot act, NSA spying on us, or 10 years of pointless war.
4. -The punishment does not fit the crime.
True, and lets support AMAs continued efforts to litigate/oppose it.
5. -Opposition to ineffective knee jerk actions
See above. I do agree we should be exempt at hobby fields, but the idiots buying a drone at Best Buy and flying it next to JFK airport need some regulatin' I dont want to die in the first drone/airliner incident.
6. -The possibility that the small fee will grow.
Its been pointed out that the $5 fee is the same thing full scale pays to register an airliner. Been there forever. And also was mentioned that you used to have to learn Morse and get an expensive ham license just to operate a TX. Those rules where eventually dropped.

regulations dont always escalate.
7. -Due to not directly addressing the problem, there may be heavier stuff that follows down the road.
Again see # 4 and 5.

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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12-17-2015 01:01 PM  20 months agoPost 11
theriddick45

Veteran

United States

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HeimD.

Sorry I'm a lone wolf. I'm not a member of any club for several years I fly in a private field 20 minutes from where I live I got permission to.

I received the emails from the AMA but wasn't pay too much of attention to it since the word Drone doesn't apply to me in my own view. I came across the post here and now I'm learning this Sh@@t now total BS.

Lucky I didn't fly yesterday!!!😁

This hobby is turning in to a fiasco!!!!

Suzi Janis 800e & 700e 3blade both w/Ikon

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12-17-2015 01:23 PM  20 months agoPost 12
don s

Key Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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How much money does Amazon have? How much money do we have?

The future:

BTW, I fly out in the country already (BFE if you will).

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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12-17-2015 02:12 PM  20 months agoPost 13
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Another thread???
Jharkin yes a third thread. One closed. Only two open. Different topics. I don't see a problem?

That said, appreciate your post. A couple things, though. On point #2 being public. Someone put that in another thread and I didn't verify it. I have no idea who is right. But even if the list isn't public, it's still a list and you're still on the hook for visits from law enforcement if someone quadiots in your locale. Puts you on short list of suspects. That still applies.

As for #6. It seems by your response you didn't read my point. Right now it's $5 per pilot. FAA doesn't register pilots. They register aircraft. They are making an exception for us. This could easily become $5 per model down the road. And in fact, a part of me prefers that to protect us from fraud. But I realize that I only have a few models and some who have many would not want that.

As for dons - I really hope that isn't what all this is about. If Amazon goes thru with that they are going to realize that it's not worth the risk. First crash in suburbia and they'll be rightfully sued to the moon. Can't say I'd empathize.

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12-17-2015 03:34 PM  20 months agoPost 14
greenmeanie

Senior Heliman

connecticut

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Its a big deal because look what they did with our gun rights.

They will take a little each time while making money off of you yearly.
I could actually see them banning turbines in the future.

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12-17-2015 03:42 PM  20 months agoPost 15
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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That brings up an important point. Remember the focus of our discussion on registration has been for models up to 55 lbs.

Models over 55 are getting more microscope than we are. I'll admit that I'm not learned in what the ruling says for giant scale stuff, but for those of you who fly larger models, you need to look into it!

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12-17-2015 03:44 PM  20 months agoPost 16
HeimD

Veteran

the great southwest

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Sorry I'm a lone wolf. I'm not a member of any club for several years I fly in a private field 20 minutes from where I live I got permission to.
Same for me. But, with these forums, being a "lone wolf" isn't much of an excuse. I'm on them...you're on them... You've proved it by posting and what's been going on between the AMA and the FAA has been well covered in a variety of places in many, many threads.

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12-17-2015 03:45 PM  20 months agoPost 17
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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No personal attacks please let's stay on topic.

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12-17-2015 03:47 PM  20 months agoPost 18
jharkin

Senior Heliman

Holliston, MA - USA

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As for #6. It seems by your response you didn't read my point. Right now it's $5 per pilot. FAA doesn't register pilots. They register aircraft. They are making an exception for us. This could easily become $5 per model down the road. And in fact, a part of me prefers that to protect us from fraud. But I realize that I only have a few models and some who have many would not want that.
They did it per pilot on a legal technicality to claim that they are not violating S.336. It remains to be seen if a court challenge will overturn things.

If it ever got changed to per model then I would be out a few bucks as Ive got about a dozen flying and/or in construction right now. But even so $50 to register wouldn't even be in the noise compared to the 10s of thousands Ive invested in this hobby over 2 decades.
Models over 55 are getting more microscope than we are. I'll admit that I'm not learned in what the ruling says for giant scale stuff, but for those of you who fly larger models, you need to look into it!
The rule says models over 55lb have to be registered individually.

People who fly the big stuff already go through a lot of hoops. Large models need to be inspected and get an AMA waiver to fly at AMA sanctioned fields and events.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/520-a.pdf

-Jeremy
Whiplash-G
Helix 700G
T-Rex 450 fbl conversion
alot of planks

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12-17-2015 03:52 PM  20 months agoPost 19
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Which should have been further proof to the FAA that the AMA was on it, safety wise. Oh well. FAA is like honey badger. Don't give a ....

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12-17-2015 11:19 PM  20 months agoPost 20
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Regarding point #2 and the public registry - see links.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ames-addresses/

http://thehill.com/policy/technolog...-drone-database

Although certainly not as bad as the "drone yellow pages" it was made out to be, people will be able to look up your number and see your name/addy.

So, keep your model close and your number closer.

A real privacy issue. Not sensationalism/shock. Just the facts as I am aware of them.

But on the positive side, no more running away from negligence and criminal activity. Right? Wrong. That idea presumes all drones are registered and stay registered. The negligent and criminal will not play by the rule. So, this list is still utterly ineffective at its purpose, only opening up a privacy issue.

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