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HelicopterMain Discussion › Call for Petition: Traditional Modelers - AMA represents drones. It's time WE represent US
12-16-2015 12:52 AM  24 months agoPost 21
TCP

rrElite Veteran

Kingsley, MI - USA

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+I seen them not step to the plate for my buddy every reason in the book why his insurance had to pay!! And not them!!! Piss poor

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12-16-2015 01:22 AM  24 months agoPost 22
Arclight338

rrNovice

New Jesey, United States of America

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AMA, has proven beyond any reasonable doubt- that they have failed to represent the membership. Their Government Relations Committee has shown that they are either inept and REALLY thought that 180,000 or so members meant anything to the political ruling class OR they clearly used the proliferation of drones to 1)stuff their coffers with advertising money from retailers that have no vested interest in modeling( short of immediate 1 time sales) 2)Completely ignored the emails and phone calls of the membership that forewarned them that these uas systems operated by the unskilled and reckless would result in harm to our hobby.

The money spent was money wasted.They should contact the other PACS and find out who to pay off and stop raising our dues for a half assed magazine with 2 pages of heli coverage and poor 3rd party insurance. We certaintly have NO representation with the FAA.

Goblin 700,Align: Trex: 250,500,600E,700N Pro,Blitz Avro 90,Outrage 50V2

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12-16-2015 01:26 AM  24 months agoPost 23
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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IRCHA is an AMA special interest group. The assumption that AMA screwed "us" to go after drone money is absurd. Beware cutting off your nose to spite your face. Had this gone in favor of AMA you would singing their praises.

Taking your ball and going home is childish. I have already written one of my senators and will write the second one this evening. Then it's on to my representatives.

And I will continue to support the AMA. The battle isn't over. I am not one to cut and run when I don't get my way.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-16-2015 01:35 AM  24 months agoPost 24
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Insulting my position changes nothing. The AMA brokered themselves into this position by not isolating us from drones. And they did so against the concerns of its members. Calling my plan immature doesn't change the fact that it's been two days and we have no stated intentions by our "leadership." It isn't petty to assume they've rolled over. If anything is petty, it's insults.

Again. Prove me wrong. Don't insult me. Show me.

"Disappointed" is not a plan.

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12-16-2015 01:43 AM  24 months agoPost 25
Arclight338

rrNovice

New Jesey, United States of America

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The AMA's failure to convince the FAA that registration requirements should be satisfied by AMA membership and NOTHING else is enough to see AMA's oversight of the modeling community is meaningless.

Cut and run? Why not, if we have to operate as an FAA "airman"-which is exactly what this is- make no mistake this is not drone or model registration. It is clearly another list of airman.Just wait,get licensed to fly a real aircraft,or go to school to be an A/P mechanic you'll see how deep the FAA's grasp can be.

This hobby is in decline. There is no reason for the drone consumer to learn anything other than charging the packs in the radio and drone.

Ircha,short of attending there heli event-what benefits do you receive joining? Bottom line,this is an epic failure of the AMA,this hobby tax is just another example of Big Government. Safety,overall will not change. There is no fix for stupid.

Goblin 700,Align: Trex: 250,500,600E,700N Pro,Blitz Avro 90,Outrage 50V2

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12-16-2015 02:21 AM  24 months agoPost 26
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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One thing that could salvage the AMA would be a recall election followed by positive action. I hear rumors that individuals in the organization are pissed.

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12-16-2015 02:38 AM  24 months agoPost 27
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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While I don't like what has been done I can tell you this Aaron. I work in government and one thing about it you have to go about things the right way. If you go in yelling and screaming and telling them they broke the law you will get nowhere. They will do to you just like us peon's that work there. They will tell you they are in charge and you aint crap. Believe me I put up with this every day. You can also threaten with not voting for them and stuff like that and it will get a person no place. First thing to remember is we are a very small group. AMA has what about 200,000 members? That is less than the size of Des Moines Iowa. Do you really thing that if the rest of the country voted for them and Des Moines didn't they would loose? Not hardly. If I can give you any advice on this to get ppl to help and get them to listen you have to trick them into thinking they are the smartest ppl and you have a way to make them smarter. Use a little reverse phycology on them. Other wise I can guarantee you wont get far. These ppl in charge think they are the smartest ever and they are some of the dumbest ever.

Team Jr

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12-16-2015 02:41 AM  24 months agoPost 28
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Thank you for that. Definitely good and critical input. I'll be sure it's an appeal to congress, not the AMA or FAA. Let congress flex its muscles against the rogue FAA. We'll be the victim. Let them be the hero. Ya know?

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12-16-2015 03:34 AM  24 months agoPost 29
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Thank you dkshema for providing common sense to this FPV, GPS, multirotor and AMA witch hunt of a thread! The AMA lost this battle for us because of attitudes like the OP's and others with similar mentality. No offense to Aaron29, but we cannot again turn on each other by segregating certain aspects of RC as villains. Remember united we stand, divided we fall. We are all in this together. Contact your elected officials in Washington. Tell them the FAA has violated Congress' intent of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act by further regulating model aviation.

We all know what a real "drone" is, it is owned by the US military or CIA. Let's make the elected officials know too.

The registration process will not serve to make the skies safer. The FAA missed the boat by not listening to what Congress said in the Act with regards to community based organizations (AMA). Safety is only gained through education, which up till now has been instilled in new RC pilots by joining a local AMA chartered RC club.

The registration process is only a mechanism to put law abiding, mature people on notice. And to severely punish those who violate the rules, because after all, the prosecutor can now say, "they should have known better". The problem of course is children and law breakers will still violate the rules, laws, etc. They are the same ones doing stupid things with their DJI Phantoms and cheaper models now. There is simply no point to registration without education. Next up, costly licensing of RC pilots to provide the education once provided for free at the local RC fields.

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12-16-2015 03:43 AM  24 months agoPost 30
quazar1

rrNovice

PA

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your call for a petition

Not to create a fire storm here. I would like to simply remind the helicopter pilots of one thing. Back in the 1970's helicopters were new technology models and many AMA chartered clubs wanted to ban helicopters also because many pilots stood in the center of the runway when learning to fly them and the airplanes and helicopters did not mix well. The AMA embraced the new tech models and then a SIG was approved for the heli group. I think some are being a bit harsh concerning the AMA supporting the multi-rotor group. The AMA has done a lot for this hobby and provides a great location for many events in Muncie IRCHA, XFC, and many others. Be kind to AMA they did not turn their back on your SIG. We should embrace the new technology and help educate the new pilots.

Thanks

Tony

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12-16-2015 03:46 AM  24 months agoPost 31
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Back in the 1970's helicopters were new technology models and many AMA chartered clubs wanted to ban helicopters also
Hmm. I could counter argue that when helis first hit the scene, we should have started our own organization. Honestly, we haven't been that good for plankers.

Still, we were just a nuisance, not a threat. Had we wrought anything like this upon them, they'd be totally justified trying to kick us to the curb.

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12-16-2015 03:49 AM  24 months agoPost 32
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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As for rexxigpilot. You say AMA lost this fight because of division from people like me?! That's totally untrue. The AMA embraced quads, FPV, you name it...and then presented this mess as a unified modeling community to the FAA. Guys like me had no voice. We presented concerns to AMA and were ignored. You dare blame me?

YGBSM

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12-16-2015 03:49 AM  24 months agoPost 33
helo_chris

rrVeteran

goodlettsville, tn

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I had been away from the hobby for a couple of years due to life happening, and I noticed one thing when returning over the last few months. The AMA seemed way to optimistic about the growth in the "hobby" due to drones and quads that virtually anyone can fly. Maybe not consciously, but I think they are abandoning the "hobby" market to embrace the "toy" market. And lets not kid ourselves, thats what has driven this.

I think people should be free to do whatever they like, but as others have said the AMA should have distanced itself from the "toy" market. Now the "hobby" market is suffering because of a lack of knowledge and respect from those with no investment in this as a hobby. The AMA screwed up on this I think, because I doubt those people would ever join anyway. Why would they? Three weeks after Christmas little johnny will have crashed his drone and moved on. Those of us with an actual investment in the hobby are left to suffer the consequences.

I for one will not be renewing my AMA if their reaction to this is what I suspect it will. They serve no purpose at this point. Any insurance company would be happy to sell you an umbrella liability insurance policy for less money than you would think. Maybe not as cheap as an AMA membership, but their insurance isnt that good anyway.

"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."

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12-16-2015 04:01 AM  24 months agoPost 34
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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The AMA needs to step up now that the deed is done and fight. We can help but like you said there is little point in being a member if they aren't going to do their best to get this reversed.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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12-16-2015 04:12 AM  24 months agoPost 35
flyboy1985

rrApprentice

mohnton pa

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if the FAA controls the airspace,, than im suing them,, because there rain has hit my house causing damage and wear to it, oh yea and hail and snow,,, soooooo who dose the lawyer call first?

going pro , one crash at a time

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12-16-2015 04:17 AM  24 months agoPost 36
LaDon

rrVeteran

Fort Dodge .Ia

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I am trying to figure out why you think the AMA sold us out basically? I am a member and I didn't get invited to the meetings. Did ppl get to go that are on here? I really don't believe they went in and said hey we will let you take over the Rc flying side of this and let the AMA just fizzle into oblivion. I understand ppl being unhappy about this. I am unhappy about this but strength is in numbers. I hate to say it guys but even with everyone in the AMA we have we don't have one thing. Numbers. Even the AMA is relatively small. Not only that they don't have the power to stop anything. All they can do is present a case and then take the consequences. Just like the rest of us. Like I said earlier I work in government. You have never worked with such a bunch of morons as you do in there and they won't listen to squat. They know it all. I will guarentee you it went that way in the meetings too. We need the amount of ppl in the nra to have the power to stop stuff and we just don't have that

Team Jr

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12-16-2015 04:40 AM  24 months agoPost 37
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I am trying to figure out why you think the AMA sold us out basically?
I detailed it in the OP. There is a clear campaign by them over the last few years to embrace drones. The AMA was ignorant to the fact that drones are the targeted group by the media, public, and FAA. By including them our "group" we did not stand a chance to be represented as we should have.

Was it intentional? Doesn't matter. All they saw was future potential membership, and their eyes weren't on the ball, which was representing their CURRENT membership, not their HOPEFUL one.

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12-16-2015 04:48 AM  24 months agoPost 38
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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12-16-2015 05:02 AM  24 months agoPost 39
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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A well educated individual in the area of long range fpv could make a guided weapon.

just saying

spending time, paying attention

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12-16-2015 05:04 AM  24 months agoPost 40
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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A well educated individual in the area of long range fpv could make a guided weapon.
Which is why when AMA codified a ruleset for FPV, I cringed. Played right into getting the most negative attention from FAA we could. When rogue FPV guys are getting into trouble, and we have FPV guys in our ranks, the FAA isn't going to notice the nuances between "them" and "us." They are going to see one unified thing.

The FAA is also more concerned about the navigational envelope of a model, not just whether a ruleset exists. Fact is, it's a whole lot harder to get in trouble when LOS than FPV. FPV can wander places LOS wouldn't dream of. Like 4000' near an airliner.

Failing to separate from this segment was another critical error.

I felt then, and am vindicated in feeling now, that we should have been a strictly LOS community and let the FPV guys fend for themselves.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Call for Petition: Traditional Modelers - AMA represents drones. It's time WE represent US
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