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HelicopterMain Discussion › Call for Petition: Traditional Modelers - AMA represents drones. It's time WE represent US
12-15-2015 05:48 PM  22 months agoPost 1
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Guys,

The AMA is a business. As such, they could not ignore such a pool of potential membership that the drone phenomenon represented. They tried to go to bat for us while simultaneously embracing the drone trend. It turned out to be an untenable juggling act. And it doesn't appear they are willing to reconsider their stance on drones. Their interests are conflicting and they can no longer effectively represent the traditional modeler so long as this conflict exists.

You may disagree there is a conflict, but you need to open your eyes. Look at the magazine drone articles. Look at their handling of the FAA talks, how they made no attempt to separate drones from models. The IRCHA thread at the top of the RR main discussion page shows that IRCHA approached the AMA trying to restrict the definition of "drone." The AMA paid no heed. The AMA embraced drones and continues to lump us in with them.

As long as we are lumped in with drones, we will NEVER get decent representation. The legislators are not going to go to bat for you or me as long as drones are a part of us. Not in this political climate. There is no way they will give us the nod when our ranks include drones and there is intense pressure to do something about drones.

No wonder this registration nightmare has fallen upon us. If the AMA had done as IRCHA recommended, we might have been able to end up in a special class.

The AMA will not separate us, even if it is possibly the best way forward to represent the traditional LOS modeler. Well, no offense to the drones guys, but it's time we part ways. We have to protect our interests.

I'm in the act of drafting a petition along the lines of what the IRCHA thread is saying. I need ideas and support - here are the ideas I intend on including thus far:

-The traditional modeler has operated safely for 80 years.
-The traditional modeler operates LOS, within visual range, and does not represent the hazard that FPV or GPS guided drones do. Our navigational envelope is far less likely to cause issue with the NAS
-The traditional modeler flies aircraft that are not hands off self stabilizing, and thus the hobby is about control of the model, not exploration.
-Because the traditional modeler does not fly a self stabilizing aircraft, it takes experience and training, and thus it is not prone to the flash in the pan modeler who has no long term interest in the safety of the hobby.
-The FAA has overreached the authority handed to them by congress. Traditional modeling was intended to be protected by congress and the FAA maneuvered around it.
-I will make it abundantly clear that anyone who has not specifically separated us from drones has not been our voice. I don't think I need to state three letter org names to effectively do this.

Guys, I need your support. And ideas. And soon. Don't rest assuming AMA got yo back. They don't. You will not see them publicly state we have nothing to do with drones. They do not have that position. Their bottom line won't allow it. Time to wake up.

What other ideas should be in the petition?
What goes too far?
Will you support me?

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12-15-2015 05:53 PM  22 months agoPost 2
Russell Bear

rrApprentice

League City, Texas USA

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Sorry for my ignorance but does IRCHA offer insurance as the AMA does? If it does I support this effort and will not be renewing with the AMA once I clear with my local clubs that the AMA membership should not be the only "card" I need to fly weekly or at fun-flys...

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12-15-2015 05:54 PM  22 months agoPost 3
Aaron29

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USA

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For the record I don't represent IRCHA. I'm just a concerned traditional modeler. To my knowledge, IRCHA doesn't insure.

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12-15-2015 05:57 PM  22 months agoPost 4
Stephen Born

rrElite Veteran

USA

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If a petition is drafted, I would like to assume that pilots express their voice and sign. Unfortunately, as past behavior predicts future behavior, I suppose you will get 2 to 3 signatures.

I hope I am wrong.

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12-15-2015 06:00 PM  22 months agoPost 5
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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I like. We definitely need to separate ourselves from the FPV and GPS crowd. They can do their own thing and deal with the issues they create and we can continue to do what we have done successfully and safely for decades.

Steve

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12-15-2015 06:50 PM  22 months agoPost 6
bparro

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indianapolis,in

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I remember 4 or 5 years ago we were predicting this kind of thing would happen. The next phase will be mandatory insurance! Total BS.

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12-15-2015 07:10 PM  22 months agoPost 7
Stephen Born

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USA

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I remember 4 or 5 years ago we were predicting this kind of thing would happen.
I also remember there was a push to write petitions to the FAA. Very few pilots wrote in, and now here we are today.

I am quite amazed that this particular thread; though to initiate pilots to petition, has the same few responses...

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12-15-2015 07:14 PM  22 months agoPost 8
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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I'll edit for a more attractive thread title

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12-15-2015 07:28 PM  22 months agoPost 9
bparro

rrVeteran

indianapolis,in

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Truthfully, 4 or 5 years ago quads had not yet exploded onto the scene like they have in the last couple of years. I thought it was pretty ridiculous to be worried about the government wasting it's time regulating something as trivial as rc toys. Now I understand I should never underestimate over reaching government.

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12-15-2015 07:30 PM  22 months agoPost 10
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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we need to clearly differentiate between traditional modeling and drones...

the guys that lead up to this were after aerial video and non LOS operation which gave them a way of control that could effectively allow them to hide... stability of the model is also a slippery slope... FBL systems can be set up to have such stability....

the core issue is non LOS, GPS and FPV....

take those way and its a traditional model.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2015 07:36 PM  22 months agoPost 11
ssmith512

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis, IN USA

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For the record, I have nothing against multi-rotor craft per say. I have serious issue with FPV (when flown in non-LOS scenarios), GPS assisted, autonomous craft. THOSE vehicles and THOSE irresponsible "operators" are what have caused us to be in the situation we are in.

The FAA could have EASILY made any craft that is flown FPV, GPS assisted or has autonomous flight capability the sole subject of registration requirements and left us traditional RC LOS modelers out of it. But that would have not generated a decent revenue stream.

EDIT: RM3 beat me to it. We are saying the same thing.

Steve

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12-15-2015 09:51 PM  22 months agoPost 12
HeimD

rrVeteran

the great southwest

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Yeah, good luck with that.

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12-15-2015 10:04 PM  22 months agoPost 13
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Look at their press releases. They are disappointed, yet are not making any overtures to fight the legislation or try to change strategy? Tons of members demanding action. No response except "we're disappointed. "

I see no leadership or communication from AMA.

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12-15-2015 10:29 PM  22 months agoPost 14
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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[quote]-The traditional modeler flies aircraft that are not hands off self stabilizing, and thus the hobby is about control of the model, not exploration.
-Because the traditional modeler does not fly a self stabilizing aircraft,/[quote]

"AUTONOMOUS", autonomous, autonomous,

I think the faa document may have more to do with reining in co's like Google and Amazon and the zillions of potential start-up co's competing for quick short distance under 55lb delivery systems. I recently saw a vid where the author was asked to find a commercial use for a top secret technology, again it's only about the money.

Lots of great fantastic ideas regarding droney use, probably frightening the shyt out of the faa really, poor lads. Droney tech has gotten very advanced in the recent years because so many start-ups see the pot of gold at the end of the imaginary rainbow of droney opportunity.

The shyt hit the fan on quadly "drones" when the media got hold of it, the fan was big, the faa turned it up a little, free enterprise is turning it up tons more, now there's a hurricane of interest, wind, and something is stinky for a very large group of people who had nothing to do with the word "drone" in the first place, still stinks.

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12-15-2015 11:23 PM  22 months agoPost 15
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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well I wonder how many will not renew their AMA next time around... as a show of our disappointment.... I find it very strange that the dues went up, JUST prior to this requirement...

something tells me that the AMA knew that this was going to happen, and that they were done for...so try to make money just before they get trampled by the gov and abandoned by the RC hobbyist.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-15-2015 11:53 PM  22 months agoPost 16
Jim-bob

rrApprentice

Little Hocking OH USA

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Yes I will support you. I think the FAA figured out AMA's plan for more revenue thru quads and took it from em

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12-16-2015 12:01 AM  22 months agoPost 17
artimus

rrKey Veteran

Buckley WA

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Demand your ama dues back.....they clearly dont have yours. AMA insurance only pays after personal liability and home owners have been exhausted. Read your policy. You think they will back you in a incident when they cant back us up here......it s a joke.

They just hooked me for two years.

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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12-16-2015 12:15 AM  22 months agoPost 18
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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Fwiw..

I had a long conversation with Tony Stillman at AMA today...
According to him, tne FAA came to the table with a preconception of what they would implement, tne discussions were pro forma...
They are as upset about this as we are but are walking a fine congerssional line trying to keep section 336 alive as it will sunset on 12/31...
I urged him to have their offices communicate that they are pursuing legal avenues as clearly as possible, as many of us are convinced they dropped the ball..
I am willing to believe this information for now, but really want to see better communication of a game plan to all AMA members.

John.

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12-16-2015 12:15 AM  22 months agoPost 19
flyboy1985

rrApprentice

mohnton pa

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i support you %100 ,
but you can have a million flys on a turd and it still dont mean sh*t..

what i mean is,,
now that the FAA is involved , its federal , so rules is rules,,
they got there hand in it , and now , im afraid , we just may also go down that road of mandatory insurance , (btw whoever thinks the ama just hands out insurance claims,, well maybe you should read your fine print of your contract)

they will want whatever moneys they can get from us , its the american way...

as for the fines,, i dont think its gonna be like most think , where every cop will stop you and demand to see papers,
more like if theres a matter of persons or property getting damaged,, than they will fine you well and make a great example out of you,,
besides , who is to say you dont go on the internet and you got the heli as a gift and tryed it out and didnt know such a law existed?
but anywho , thats another matter all-together ,

lets be honest here and off topic for a moment,,
the ones who do dumb sh*t with there drones or planes or helis,, well there the same guys that wont register , wont give a dam , and go about there bizz ,,, still try to ruin the hobby with dumb acts,, yada yada ya...

i see it like this,, everyone has two options,,
option A : register yourself , be out $5, go fly and your life never changed,,

option B: do what im gonna do , dont register , still fly at the field i do , not harming anyone or anything , just out to have harmless fun with my toy heli,, never will have a cop stop me , never get a fine, and my life didnt change either,,,

fyi , i am not an AMA member nor will i be,, im responsable for me, i dont fly around anyone unless its my heli buds that want to see me fly , and when i do im not close, ,if people come , i leave,, simple as that , no property to damage ,. noone to get hurt that dont except the possibliy somthing bad could happen ...

im not asking for feedback on this , just giving my input of an over exausted topic

going pro , one crash at a time

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12-16-2015 12:43 AM  22 months agoPost 20
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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AMA fees = cash grab to use a proper flying field.
How many insurance claims have the AMA actually paid out.
They are a 3rd party insurance carrier operating under the impression of a model club.
It is the same for MAAC more of the same BS an insurance carrier that does not cover you.

Both of these organisations are like the extended warranty option.
When it comes time to claim they will use what ever excuse to back out.
fyi , i am not an AMA member nor will i be,, im responsable for me, i dont fly around anyone unless its my heli buds that want to see me fly , and when i do im not close, ,if people come , i leave,, simple as that , no property to damage ,. noone to get hurt that dont except the possibliy somthing bad could happen .
This is how a hobby should be enjoyed,
I will not pay for rights that are already mine.

spending time, paying attention

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