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HelicopterIRCHA › Drone Registration
12-16-2015 05:37 PM  20 months agoPost 21
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Hey Charles,

I appreciate your attempt, but have a concern;
I submitted that a "Drone" was an aircraft that required the use of a flight control system for normal operation and provided the pilot with the ability to operate the aircraft with GPS coordinates and/or mission planning software (which would also allow BLOS). A "Drone" also had the ability to return to home in the event of a loss of transmitter communication, could perform autonomous landing, and could initiate an autonomous landing if a preset battery voltage threshold was triggered. It was my thought that this technology threshold would direct registration toward multi rotor aircraft.
And in particular,
with the ability to operate the aircraft with GPS coordinates and/or mission planning software (which would also allow BLOS). A "Drone" also had the ability to return to home in the event of a loss of transmitter communication, could perform autonomous landing, and could initiate an autonomous landing if a preset battery voltage threshold was triggered.
Some Multirotors do NOT have these capabilities, and some helicopters DO have these capabilities. If your wanting to delineate between Multi's and heli's, you may want to simply say that. Call Multi's Drones, and call heli's heli's and suggest Limitations on ONLY Drones and none on Helicopters, if THAT is your suggestion.

It wouldn't be MY suggestion, Better to simply Aim your target at the control system capability instead of turning into the old fuddy duddy Plankers who call them newfangled whirlybirds "dangerous" and try to outlaw them from "their" flying field...

Chris D. Bergen

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12-16-2015 05:41 PM  20 months agoPost 22
moses

rrApprentice

indiana

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The site to apply on the 21st will be like the Obama site it's going to crash cause so many people will be trying to get on it

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12-16-2015 06:50 PM  20 months agoPost 23
Ghia

rrApprentice

Abq, NM

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Easy fix to all this.

Any drone pilot seen flying beyond sight and not at a club field gets their ass kicked for this mess.

Like this guy here:

Watch at YouTube

Read the comments on him at YouTube

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12-16-2015 09:26 PM  20 months agoPost 24
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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What if I'm flying on my own property, BVR? Do I get my ass kicked?

Chris D. Bergen

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12-17-2015 04:56 AM  20 months agoPost 25
Ghia

rrApprentice

Abq, NM

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Not you Mr Bergen. Ok maybe kickin some ass is a lil excessive on this. Besides My Bergen Intrepid 50 and 60s helis might need parts eventually.

But some of these rogue operators need a kick somewhere. I'm not that happy with the AMA either.

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12-17-2015 01:54 PM  20 months agoPost 26
coolingfan

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Grand Junction, Colorado

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I am forward this communication to you from Jim Tiller, District IX VP, that explains AMA position on this FAA ruling. Please pass this along to your membership.

Rick McCaskill
AMA District IX AVP
303-682-0440

-----Original Message-----
From: jim tiller <jtiller@hotmail.com>

If you get calls from members who have not received the national AMA Member Communication, please forward the message you received to them. This is the best and freshest information they have -- straight from the horse's mouth. If they are not getting the member communications, they marked 'no messages’ on their membership renewal. They can talk to AMA membership and have that changed.

I have gotten lots of calls already as I am sure you have. As far as this whole mess goes, the first message would be patience. Let this play out a little before any action. If we have to register, maybe it should be the last day, instead of the first.

Second, the AMA is actively resisting and pushing back on this oppressive action by the FAA.

Third, the AMA council is actively working a path of action. A have a conference call today with the council and our lawyers. A lawsuit is one alternative we are considering. PR action to challenge the ridiculousness of this rule is another.

Fourth, if there is an opportunity to express you anger in the media about registering the law abiding citizens who fly hobby airplanes, please take it.

Our members are rightfully angry about this mess. They are also angry at the AMA leadership. Ask them to direct some of their anger at their congressional leaders and to the Airline Pilots Association who were the major driving force for this 'emergency’ situation.

Here's a couple of other talking points that I probably have already mentioned.

This 'emergency’ and the actions of the FAA and the DOT has all happened within the last 90 days. It was as much a surprise to us as to anyone. In an 'emergency’ the administration can make the rules --although there is no clear definition of what the emergency is.

We were one voice on the DOT committee of a couple of dozen appointees from the DOT.

There was never a point in the committee meeting that a definition of a drone was considered (except for the weight limit). From the outset, the thrust was to register 'everything that leaves the ground’. We would have welcomed a definition that a drone is something operated out of line of sight.

The push for this came from the highest level in the administration as well as push for it to be done before Christmas.

This flies in the face of the Congressional law passed in 2012 giving us rights to the airspace.

We'll weather this together. I have no doubt this will affect AMA membership and call into question the direction the AMA is going. Encourage discussion and input on all these issues from the membership. The AMA, all members, all clubs should be active in resisting this effort, although it may be a futile effort.

Jim Tiller
District IX VP
605-390-3878

Sent from Surface Pro

From: Membership
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎December‎ ‎14‎, ‎2015 ‎3‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
To: jtiller@hotmail.com

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12-17-2015 02:33 PM  20 months agoPost 27
Uncle Joe

rrNovice

Irwin, Pa. USA

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Right coolingfan, yet they can't read the 2nd amendment without interpenetrating plain English. The law pasted gave the FAA the right to write the laws. Seems the AMA had their pants handed to them.

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12-17-2015 04:20 PM  20 months agoPost 28
Heli_Splatter

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Anyone flying anywhere needs to register... you are flying in the National Airspace... not on your property. However if you burrow into the ground.. that is not part of the NAS.
What if I'm flying on my own property, BVR? Do I get my ass kicked?

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12-17-2015 04:58 PM  20 months agoPost 29
Russell Bear

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League City, Texas USA

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12-17-2015 05:20 PM  20 months agoPost 30
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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RussellBear...

THANKS!

Already signed....

John.

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12-17-2015 05:20 PM  20 months agoPost 31
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Good to see comms like that. Only things I question is what value is there in letting it "play out a little bit," as he says. Seems passive and uninspiring. I secondly question that the AMA is "actively resisting this." What does active resistance look like? Because I've seen no evidence of that yet here on Day 4.

But, overall I'm very glad to see this. But their Facebook and .org doesn't communicate any of that. Can they get that letter on their Facebook to alleviate concerns and ensure they don't hemorrhage membership?

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12-17-2015 06:03 PM  20 months agoPost 32
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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Great, now we are self creating a list of all the people opposed to the policy. That should help the government.

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12-17-2015 06:07 PM  20 months agoPost 33
Russell Bear

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League City, Texas USA

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At my local Staples. The store manager isn't aware of any new regulation to inform the purchaser of this fine machine. "Best in RC"

Citizen #705

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12-17-2015 06:50 PM  20 months agoPost 34
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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This response in a their .org makes me hopeful that something is going on behind the scenes:
Chad Budreau December 16, 2015 at 22:40

Understood.

I want to be as transparent as possible, but on the other hand we at the AMA do not want to show all of our cards. We are exploring all of our options.
Maybe they've something up their sleeve.

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12-17-2015 07:09 PM  20 months agoPost 35
Uncle Joe

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Irwin, Pa. USA

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I hope they do because they've shown their ass. They asked us to trust them, that worked well.

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12-17-2015 07:11 PM  20 months agoPost 36
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Chad Budreau December 16, 2015 at 19:14

Yes, we are disappointed by this registration process. It is overly burdensome.

Yet we are still working on the issue and there are many other victories within the past couple years made by the AMA. Without your membership helping the AMA turbine jets would be grounded, under no circumstance could pilots fly over 400′ devastating the sailplane community, giant scale aircraft would not be permitted to fly, many flying fields near airports would be forced to close, communities such as Albany NY would have been successful in their attempts to ground all model aircraft.
I won't deny they've gone to bat for us. And I appreciate them having done so.

They simply lost this fight. I'll give them a little credit for past fidelity, and a little time to formulate. But we need to see something and soon. Something up the sleeve is good for now, but if we're Feb 19 still saying that, I'm going to combust.

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12-17-2015 07:19 PM  20 months agoPost 37
coolingfan

rrVeteran

Grand Junction, Colorado

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i was just ask to pass Jim's message. You all can jump ship if you want too. For me I am just going to wait. Frankly I don't see what the big hurry is.

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12-17-2015 07:26 PM  20 months agoPost 38
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Jumping ship would be extraordinarily bad. They will need clout and confidence to fight. A hemorrhaging membership would not be good. They need us. We need them.

Don't quit.

Guys, there's a difference between being disappointed and demanding action vs. walking away. A HUGE difference.

In fact, you no longer have any power once you quit. You can't very well say to the AMA leadership, "I quit, and demand action." That doesn't work. You've already exercised your power.

Don't ragequit. You can only demand action from AMA when you are a paying member. And AMA is only as powerful as their numbers and this is a critical time.

Do not mistake my disappointment and demands for action as calls to quit AMA. That's the LAST thing to do. Very premature and ineffective.

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12-17-2015 08:16 PM  20 months agoPost 39
IRCHA

rrApprentice

Muncie, IN

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To those of you who have posted in all the threads, it is good to see this has created some serious debate. I am sure most of us are aware that the AMA was in a very difficult position concerning the drone registration. They were not given much notice, and the plan was probably in place before they were ever invited. It is up to all of us to support the AMA in the fight that should continue on to protect the rights of hobbyists. I am an AMA lifetime member, and suggest many of you also consider changing your membership to lifetime status to show your support.

Chris,

The wording was created with thought and consideration of the items you suggest. I was fully aware that some helicopters do have "drone" capability (when using advanced flight control systems), and as far as I am aware all multi rotors require a flight control system for normal operation. This is why we suggested their be a technology threshold for what is and is not a "drone".

I doubt anyone in this hobby would have a hard time arguing against the fact that the current state of regulation is due primarily to quads and their multi-legged/multi-motored brothers and sisters. I have some multi rotors that I enjoy flying, and I have and love to fly my helicopters. I also understand that our hobby is under attack from people outside the hobby. Most of the new "drone" pilots do not belong, nor do they want to belong to the AMA. This is why there has been no "amazing" increase in AMA membership.

If I personally have to make the choice, then I would easily throw multi rotors under the proverbial bus to protect the rights of the typical IRCHA member. It would be difficult to say that only non AMA members should have to register their multi rotor as a drone, so a technology based classification seemed to be the only reasonable suggestion.

IRCHA is an organization first and foremost representing helicopters within the AMA. We felt it was our duty to represent our membership, who are first and foremost model helicopter pilots. We will stand beside the AMA and offer our support in any way that is needed.

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12-17-2015 08:39 PM  20 months agoPost 40
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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+1

Sir, you have nearly ALL of my yes.

But I would like to comment specifically on this point:
It would be difficult to say that only non AMA members should have to register their multi rotor as a drone
And yet this is exactly the policy failure AMA continues to pursue:
“AMA is disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration. As a member of the task force that helped develop recommendations for this rule, AMA argued that registration makes sense at some level and for UAS flyers operating outside the guidance of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes. Unfortunately, the new rule is counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and makes the registration process an unnecessary burden for our more than 185,000 members who have been operating safely for decades.
Note the part - "AMA argued that registration makes sense at some level and for UAS flyers operating outside the guidance of a community-based organization"

It has been my bloviated point that trying to gain special consideration simply for being in AMA was never going to work. And that the FAA and public were gunning for "drones" and we should have advocated separate from them. Unfortunately, that was never AMA's policy. It was actually the opposite. Instead, we got FPV rulesets, AMA calling the near-miss reports exaggerated or inaccurate, etc. etc. In other words, AMA going to bat for drone rights in a very drone unfriendly time. I will only vote for future leadership that recognizes that this is a strategy failure.

I don't think it's too late for AMA, but it will be if they don't make a very big course change. We need to salvage what we can.

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